Massoth EVO-X - 'Spring return' function

Following this with interest, in case an Evo switch might be useful for my railway:)

It seems to me that the Evo X is a refinement of the Evo S. The Evo X has added features including inputs from sensors, inputs for the IR system, a heater function and an output for frog polarity.

The instructions for this decoder need decoding:D

Cobalt6700 said:
CV115 = 1 or 2, doesn't affect blade operation. I'm guessing this setting is for when the switches are used to control external functions, e.g. signals.
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In your earlier results (post #7) test numbers 3 (CV115 at 1) and 5 (CV115 at 2) you stated that the blades always reverted to either C or T depending on CV's 51 and 52.

Cobalt6700 said:
If CV51 and CV52 are both >0, the motor just oscillates back and forth, irrespective of the CV115 value.
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This was explained by The Shed in post #5, the emphasis on 'both'.


Cobalt6700 said:
CV115 = 4 or 8 and CV51/52 = >0 , returns the motor from right left after a DCC command, instantly returns on cut open, then goes back the other way after "CV51/52" seconds.

CV115 = 12 works fine on DCC commands, but instantly returns when cut open.

CV115 = 12 and CV51/52 >0, we get that instant move back one way, followed by a timed move back the other way.
Click to expand...
Among the added features are the values in CV 115. The values here of 1 and 2 are obvious but the values of 4,8 and 12 not so obvious.
Bear in mind that I don't have one of these but do the values of 4 and 8 work in conjunction with values 1 and 2?

The manual refers to these values as 'closes the switch tongues after cut open'.
So if a loco opens the blades, adding 4 or 8 to CV 115 drives and holds the blades to the new position, these values are not meant to return the blades.

Therefore perhaps CV 115 should be set at either 5,9,6 or 10, experimentation required to eliminate the conflict of returning blades:speechless:. Add 12 to these values to hold the blades in both directions.

xmas111 said:
Can someone explain to me what CV 53 and 54 do?
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As for CV 53 and 54 the manual states 'time delay freewheel left and right'. Could this be the length of time that there is power to the drive motor as is normal on most switch drives, they are not powered permanantly?

I can't believe that Massoth would offer a product that clearly does not work, in reply to your recent post-
Cobalt6700 said:
From the manual:
7.6 Position Switches (CV115)
• The Switch Drive EVO-X has two
microswitches on the switching
rod for real position detection.
Click to expand...
That is fact

Cobalt6700 said:
• This allows automatic switching
operations to be triggered by the
movement, such as a drop-back
switch after driving up.
Click to expand...
The switch does change automatically as you have demonstrated in your earlier tests 3 and 5

Cobalt6700 said:
• When the train cut opens the turn-
out, the turnout can be automati-
cally switched back to the desired
preferred position via a time value
in CV51 or CV52.
Click to expand...
The switch does change automatically as you have demonstrated in your earlier tests 3 and 5

Cobalt6700 said:
However - the point motor doesn't do this.
Click to expand...
??????????

Are we missing something about your operational requirements? Both the Evo S and X can be operated with a DCC command but will revert to their programed default position after the time delay in CV 51 and 52.

AL
 
After posting the above I realised that there may be a flaw in my logic.
I was thinking that pushing the blades across is reinforced by the setting in CV 115 values of 4 etc. Thinking about it though that would conflict with the 'default' position and resume the oscillating problem?
AL
 
AlanL said:
In your earlier results (post #7) test numbers 3 (CV115 at 1) and 5 (CV115 at 2) you stated that the blades always reverted to either C or T depending on CV's 51 and 52.
Click to expand...
This is correct, as far as I understand this is the setting in CV51/52 that is responsible for that behaviour - CV115 has not affect on blade operation when set to 0, 1 or 2.

AlanL said:
This was explained by @The Shed in post #5, the emphasis on 'both'.
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I agree - with CV51/52 both set at > 0 in the EVO-S drive that is the expected behaviour, as the drive can't know where the blade is. However, the EVO-X has blade position switches and should be able to know where the blade is, at which point oscillation shouldn't be a problem, e.g. it returns to its commanded position.

AlanL said:
Among the added features are the values in CV 115. The values here of 1 and 2 are obvious but the values of 4,8 and 12 not so obvious.
Bear in mind that I don't have one of these but do the values of 4 and 8 work in conjunction with values 1 and 2?
Click to expand...

I agree - the manual could do with explaining further.
I also agree there is the possibility of adding CV values, I have not yet tried this as it is not something that is stated in the manual as an option.

AlanL said:
The manual refers to these values as 'closes the switch tongues after cut open'.
So if a loco opens the blades, adding 4 or 8 to CV 115 drives and holds the blades to the new position, these values are not meant to return the blades.
Click to expand...

That is a different take on the translation to what I have understood. As it is not explained in the manual, I had taken it that it returns to the last position after cut open.
There is a CV option to hold the point blades closed, but when this is enabled you are not able to push through the points, so I am not sure how this would work as you couldn't push through them to be held into a new position.


AlanL said:
Therefore perhaps CV 115 should be set at either 5,9,6 or 10, experimentation required to eliminate the conflict of returning blades:speechless:. Add 12 to these values to hold the blades in both directions.
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I think I will have a go with this and see what happens :)

AlanL said:
I can't believe that Massoth would offer a product that clearly does not work, in reply to your recent post-
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Whilst I would like to agree with you, I haven't yet seen any evidence to support that it does work..

AlanL said:
The switch does change automatically as you have demonstrated in your earlier tests 3 and 5

The switch does change automatically as you have demonstrated in your earlier tests 3 and 5

??????????

Are we missing something about your operational requirements? Both the Evo S and X can be operated with a DCC command but will revert to their programed default position after the time delay in CV 51 and 52.
Click to expand...

Yes it does, however test 3 and 5 are using CV115 = 1 and 2, which as stated previously, does not affect blade operation.


I don't think my operational requirement is unrealistic - I would like to be able to command the drive to either Closed or Thrown and for it to return to that position after a time delay if it is driven up.
From the manual, this should be possible - if not, why is it an option with CV115 = 12?
Test 14 confirms that this does work - albeit with an instant return to the commanded position (which is useless for a point motor).
As soon as you put a time value into CV51/52, it doesn't work, Test 15, 16 and 17 confirm that.

If the manual is incorrect, "the turnout can be automatically switched back to the desired preferred position via a time value in CV51 or CV52"
or the software is incorrect - I don't know.
Observation - when CV115 is set with switches opposite to the return direction in CV51/CV52 (e.g. CV52 > 0, CV115 = 2 Auto return Left, Right switch executes), the motor always returns to the direction set by CV51/CV52. If they are set in the same direction, then the motor only returns on a DCC command.
When CV115 = 0, the auto return function only works via DCC command - manually moving the blades does not work.

So:
If you want the X to return to one position after a DCC command, it works. (Test 6)
If you want the X to return to one position after a DCC command or a train cutting through, it works. (Test 5)
If you want the X to return to one position after a train cutting through, it doesn't work - A DCC Command will also cause it to return. So you might as well use a manual LGB switch. (Test 12/13)
If you want the X to return to its commanded position after cut through, it doesn't work - it either returns instantly or it ends up stuck oscillating back and forth until you power cycle it. (Test 14, 15, 16, 17)
 
I'm very disappointment with Massoth. It's been almost weeks since they say they would get back to me about this issue.

I'll probably send another email to them and see what happens this time.
 
The last time we had any reply from them was nearly 2 months ago.

I have been made aware that there is/was a restructure underway at Massoth.
 
Hey Gents, I have a similar experience. I bought a number of the X models (about 10) for this function however the best I was able to achieve was a timed return (by the motor) after a cut through but it "missed" the cut sometimes and did not activate so unreliable. Of note to me was that I could only ever get it to correct in one way or another in any single configuration ie. if points were cut left I could get it to correct for that but then it would not correct if points were cut right and vice versa.

Have worked with Massoth gear for many years and this is the most cryptic function I have come accross.

I did ultimately decide it was a product fault and left it there.

Following along with interest.....
 
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