Massoth in-to lgb ge4/4 111

Out of curiousness, where does the sound come from as the XL has none?
Did you try to set up the XL in parallel mode?
 
Loco said:
Out of curiousness, where does the sound come from as the XL has none?
Did you try to set up the XL in parallel mode?
Click to expand...

There is a Phoenix card for the sound..
I have been sitting on this for a while, so nnot sure of the model. - You have to prise the chips out with the (supplied) mini allen key to change this beastie!

Now, parallel mode.. This is not the same a 'P update', which I think is to do with sending the LGB board / loco to Germany for several months. <G> OR, P update - I went earlier.
Believe (from memory, late am not getting the book out now..) CV49? Have tried 3 and 11 (decimal) as values for this.

Am thinking of taking this to the Massoth forum. Perhaps Peter will chip-in?

This was one of the first loco's I chipped, so it is probably all wrong! - It took me a week to work out how to get the sound into my first XLS!! The paperwork with the programmer could do with some work.

Re the loco programming.. The fact I have to 'pulse' F1 twice for the front panto to go up/down tells me I am wrong somewhere.
I do not have definite paperwork for the loco. What I do have does not give me an idea of what button should do what.
I also believe that it is possible to alter the way the panto's work with a couple of the other DIP switches on the LGB board. - Again, I do not have anything definitive on this.
Thanks for the input,
Phil.
 
PhilP said:
I have just tried similar to a 20420 MOB Ge IV/IV - except it has a Phoenix sound-card.
Should both pantographs be controlable?
Should they behave similarly to analogue, and swap over when you reverse direction of travel?
Click to expand...

With the MOB, the Pantographs operate differently from the RhB ones.
The Pantographs should be both up or both down for MOB rather than directional as we see for RhB.

The dip switches on the board are as follows:
RhB - ON = 1 &2 , OFF = 3,4,5,6,7 &8
MOB - ON = 1,2,3 & 4, OFF = 5,6,7 & 8
Craig
 
Thanks for that Craig..
Just to be sure it was not a fault in the rear panto.. I swapped the pantograph connectors on the LGB board. - Rear then worked, but front did not.
So.. both pantograph units are working.
Tried both positons for the DIP switches. - No change.
Fact I have to press F1 twice in quick succession to get the front panto up/down suggests to me I have the wrong programming in the XL.

I will go back to the Massoth site, grab a decoder file, and program it again.

Thanks all,
Phil.
 
All.........
I browsed the Massoth forum (awaiting account activating) and suddenly had a thought.. .. .. .. .. (takes time, need coffee!)

I have just tried F1 three times in quick succession, and hey-presto, rear pantograph goes up! Repeat and it goes down..
SO.. I can now control BOTH pantographs independently, but in a seriously serial way <G>.
Does anyone have any ideas so I can use different function buttons to control each pantograph, and preferably hit once for up, once for down. ie toggle the state of the pantograph with a single press of a button.
To further confuse things; The F2 button causes the whistle to sound from the Phoenix sound card.
So front panto F1 and rear F3 would be wonderful!

TIA,
Phil.
 
Sounds to me that you need to activate the "Fast Pulse String" as per a previous post...

You have to activate "Fast Pulse String" and "Serial and Parallel Data Transfer" in CV49. I used C V49=11 (Serial + Parallell Data Transfer on, Digital Load Control on, Fast Pulse String on F1 on).

Then pressing F2 should operate one Panto and F3 the other.
 
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the input.. Think I am being really thick on this one!
I have not touched this loco for a while as I was getting nowhere with it.. Think I must have had-at a number of CV settings.
Latest:
F3 one press, wait, rear panto up/down.
Removed the Phoenix for now, think the battery is low and confusing things.
F2 one press - nothing. Long press and release, then front panto goes up then down. (I *think* I may have set F2 to a short pulse, as it was driving the 'whistle' on the Phoenix.
F1 two quick presses, front panto up/down.
SO..
Think I am nearly there. Will check the value for F2. Will make F1 'pulse' and drive A1 out on the decoder to operate whistle.
Will get this part going before connecting up the sound again. I also notice one set of pickup/motor leads are 'crossed' colour-wise.. This must be as one motor block is effectively in reverse due to standard coupler fitting.
Phil.
 
The way I understand it the LGB print in these older Ge 4/4 III which control the pantographs (and lights) will only work in serial mode.

However if you activate "Fast Pulse String" and "Serial and Parallel Data Transfer" in CV49 the Massoth XLS can receive all commands both as serial and as parallel!!! You obviously would like to use the parallel functionality and press function key 3 rather than F1 three times with this setup.

But in any case (serial or parallel input) - - - the XLS will re-transmit the F2 and F3 command as serial to the LGB print, and there will be a time delay, as you would expect form a serial mode transmission, before the LGB print can act on the commands and move the pantographs.

F1 is also affected (b/c you have activated the "Serial and Parallel Data Transfer" in CV49) and will react slower than in parallel only mode (just as you would expect in serial mode only). The slow response on F1 to F3 is the downside of this speed wise. Another one is that F2 and F3 can not be reprogrammed to any other function keys for pantograph control.

I have reprogrammed the sounds on my XLS so that F2 and F3 have the pantograph up and down sound. When I hit F3 or F4 the sound will immediately go off (XLS is in parallel mode), but the pantograph movement will have a delay (LGB print is in serial mode).
 
Decided I had probably tweaked to many things, so reset the decoder, then set CV49=11 as recommended.
Still the same.. I can use F1 (pulsed) to control the panto's. I can use F3 (press once and wait) to toggle rear panto up/down. F2 only does things if pressed for 2-3 seconds, then when released, the front panto will go up and then down. - I have tried differing lengths of time to hold F2. Short hold, nothing. Longer hold, as stated.
I have removed the Phoenix sound board from the equation as I thought the battery might be causing a problem with the XL.
Unless anyone has any blindingly obvious insight into what I have done / not done, then I will have to live with using F1 to raise/lower the front panto.
 
PhilP, what DCC system are you using? Do you have access to a MTS or Massoth system that you can test with?

How is your control system configured for this loco? Can it send "parallel" function commands? Can the functions be set to "toggle" or be set to "momentary"?
 
The controller is Digitrax. Either a Zephyr, or later Super Empire builder.. The Zephyr will read-back CV's, the DB150 of the Empire Builder will not. The DB150 has more oomph for programming on large-scale. - I inherited this from my late Father, he was OO, so it was fine for him.
If I can get to Codsall Wood tomorrow, I may well find MTS / Massoth there. - Have not asked if I can turn up there yet. Might have to fight the Cosford air-show traffic as well.
Dedicated four-foot of track with large brass railclamps, 4mm sockets fitted to clamps and wired to DPDT switch to give me Prog/Run on the rails..
I have pulled the Phoenix sound card, and also tried track-power direct to the XL track connections. - One motor as a load. 6-wire adapter form LGB board, DIP switches set to 'off'. Other DIP switches 4 on, 4 off. - this is the blue and white MOB.
Decoder set to 14 speed steps. 'Status edit' on the digitrax to 14 speed steps.
Phil.
 
just to cofuse the issue I have just got Capito out

F5 twice front panto up and down
F5 three times rear panto up and down
 
Tried it (F5) - no..
F1 - twice toggles front, three times toggles rear.
F2 - if held for 2-3 seconds, front up then down (or down then up) depending on state when button pressed.
F3 - single push, rear up/down.
My head hurts! ;-}

Now, to find a suitable XLS soundfile for a 2061 Schoema diesel.. Probably 8220090 is the nearest?
Phil.
 
Albula 3f front up f3 up rear f3 front down f3 rear down

How's your head now:confused::confused:
 
I have also heard of a rumour where F7 causes the 'pantograph behaviour' to be different.
It is just a little weird! - I was (dimly, like me) aware of 'serial' push-the-button-n-times to make things happen.<G>

I think I will give MTS a miss.. Massoth looks nice, and is more up-to-date looking kit than the Digitrax I have, but the cost!!!!!
Suppose if I sold the Zephyr kit, The Super Empire Builder kit, and the extra DB150, I might just have enough for a deposit on a Massoth. :-(

Still, need to get some track down, and some of these 'old cripples' running first I think.
Phil.
 
PhilP said:
I think I will give MTS a miss.. Massoth looks nice, and is more up-to-date looking kit than the Digitrax I have, but the cost!!!!!
Suppose if I sold the Zephyr kit, The Super Empire Builder kit, and the extra DB150, I might just have enough for a deposit on a Massoth. :-(
Click to expand...

If you are suggesting that changing your command station will solve the pantograph issue, then I think the answer to that is that it won't. The pantograph issue seems to be related to the electronics in your loco and how that is configured.

Massoth command stations are good and popular in G Scale but as you say are expensive and they are by no means the only option.

If you want to change I would suggest trying out others systems at open days before committing your cash.
 
Just a quick 'thankyou' for all the input, and a couple of definitive answers / observations:
1. If you use the adapter cable to connect your decoder to the LGB board you do NOT need to alter Cv's for dimming values. - The LGB board has regulators for this.
2. Having put the loco on a Massoth DCC system, it works as it should. F2 toggles front pantograph and F3 toggles the rear pantograph.
Cheers all,
PhilP.
 
Well, if I may add something on this . . .

Encouraged by Ed's post and having the same Bernina Ge 4/4-III loco (LGB-22420) I decided to chip in an XLS decoder. I have Massoth 1200Z + Navigator. I followed the instructions and matched all wire colours in the right place, I changed CV1 to the desired address, CV29 to 6 for 28 speed control and CV49 to 11 for serial and parallel F key transmission.

The loco moves properly, lights are functioning ok (without dimming at the XLS) and so on . . . , however the rear pantograpgh remains UP all time. It does not react to F3, or 3 F1 pulses (the front pantograph does react to F2 and 2 quick F1 pulses), nor to 3 fast F3 pulses, nor 3 F5 pulses, and so on. The only thing I still need to adjust is the F3 sound to reproduce the up/down panto noise as with F2.

Does any of you have a clue as to what is going wrong ??, is it a problem with the associated noise ??.

I appreciate your feedback.
Best regards
Jose
 
Jose pressing F7 should change the way the pantos re -act
 
Hello, pushing f7 does not change panto behavior. Rear panto refuses to move down and prefers to stay up all time. Not having changed any other Cv than CV1, CV29 and CV49, I can not think of anything else being wrong. I have to look at rearranging the sounds . . . ., do you know how to assign panto_up and panto_down sounds to F2 on or F2 off ?.
Thank you anyway for trying to help.
Cheers
Jose
 
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