New LGB KoF - anyone actually got one yet?

Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
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As the subject line says - I'm just interested to know if anyone on here has actually bought (or failing that, at least seen and examined in a shop) one of the all-new LGB 21930 KoF diesels (HSB or DB versions)? I'd love to hear what they are like "in the flesh" - OK, in the metal-and-plastic - is the manufacture, assembly and materials up to the old LGB standards, or have things slipped a bit? Having heard some slightly iffy reports on new-manufacture LGB rolling stock, I'm very curious to know what this first all-new loco is like, and if it's worth the £300+ price tag (I mean this in terms of relative value to earlier LGB products, I certainly don't want to ignite arguments over whether LGB is worth the money per se!!!)

So, anyone got one yet?

Jon.
 
I wish!":impatient:
 
www.gscalenews.com! :)

Anyway, a pic:
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-4.JPG
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-1.JPG

Lot of things are wrong, short list:
- Decoder is rubbish. Massoth already delivered them in 2007, so it's old technology.
- Paint is bad quality. Putting it at the roof to look at gearbox f.e., ruins the paint on the roof
- The filter-thing at the front is glued to the model at the wrong angle, and the colour is a bit different from the rest of the model
- One manual for both Kö's (DB and HSB), although both models are significantly different.

It's a shame...
 
Deutsche Reichsbahn said:
http://www.gscalenews.com! < Link To www.gscalenews.com! :)

Anyway, a pic:
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-4.JPG
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-1.JPG

Lot of things are wrong, short list:
- Decoder is rubbish. Massoth already delivered them in 2007, so it's old technology.
- Paint is bad quality. Putting it at the roof to look at gearbox f.e., ruins the paint on the roof
- The filter-thing at the front is glued to the model at the wrong angle, and the colour is a bit different from the rest of the model
- One manual for both Kö's (DB and HSB), although both models are significantly different.

It's a shame...
Click to expand...

That's a shame indeed.....
Can I ask what is actually wrong with the decoder? Surely if they are Massoth ones, the quality should be OK, does it matter if they are a couple of years old? Are they missing some of the features of the newer ones, or are you saying that some of them are actually faulty?

Jon.
 
on similar note i have just purchased a two car tram and am most disappointed couplings at different heights wobbly wheels no internal lights things need to improve for me to spend anymore with marklin/lgb i will look for used
barry
 
Zerogee said:
Deutsche Reichsbahn said:
http://www.gscalenews.com! < Link To www.gscalenews.com! :)

Anyway, a pic:
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-4.JPG
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-1.JPG

Lot of things are wrong, short list:
- Decoder is rubbish. Massoth already delivered them in 2007, so it's old technology.
- Paint is bad quality. Putting it at the roof to look at gearbox f.e., ruins the paint on the roof
- The filter-thing at the front is glued to the model at the wrong angle, and the colour is a bit different from the rest of the model
- One manual for both Kö's (DB and HSB), although both models are significantly different.

It's a shame...
Click to expand...

That's a shame indeed.....
Can I ask what is actually wrong with the decoder? Surely if they are Massoth ones, the quality should be OK, does it matter if they are a couple of years old? Are they missing some of the features of the newer ones, or are you saying that some of them are actually faulty?

Jon.
Click to expand...
Quality is ok, but the problems is it only has 24 steps instead of the 128 steps most decoders have now.

BTW: the list above is based on about ten owners of the loco on the German spassbahn forum. Take a look there for more detailed observations.
 
Deutsche Reichsbahn said:
Zerogee said:
Deutsche Reichsbahn said:
http://www.gscalenews.com! < Link To www.gscalenews.com! :)

Anyway, a pic:
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-4.JPG
http://www.dbig.de/_transport/LGB 21930-1.JPG

Lot of things are wrong, short list:
- Decoder is rubbish. Massoth already delivered them in 2007, so it's old technology.
- Paint is bad quality. Putting it at the roof to look at gearbox f.e., ruins the paint on the roof
- The filter-thing at the front is glued to the model at the wrong angle, and the colour is a bit different from the rest of the model
- One manual for both Kö's (DB and HSB), although both models are significantly different.

It's a shame...
Click to expand...

That's a shame indeed.....
Can I ask what is actually wrong with the decoder? Surely if they are Massoth ones, the quality should be OK, does it matter if they are a couple of years old? Are they missing some of the features of the newer ones, or are you saying that some of them are actually faulty?

Jon.
Click to expand...
Quality is ok, but the problems is it only has 24 steps instead of the 128 steps most decoders have now.

BTW: the list above is based on about ten owners of the loco on the German spassbahn forum. Take a look there for more detailed observations.
Click to expand...

Could you give me a direct link to the Spassbahn forum discussion on this item? I tried googling it but didn't get very far (ah, Glasshopper, your google-fu is weak....)
Thanks!

Jon.
 
Thanks - very useful!
Even after selecting English as the language for the website, the posts still all appeared to me in German, but pasting the text from each useful-looking post into Babelfish gave me a rough translation - good enough to understand most of what was being said.

Despite the criticisms, I'm still very tempted by one of these - it's just a great shame that the build quality seems to have slipped so much....

Jon.
 
Deutsche Reichsbahn said:
Deutsche Reichsbahn said:
- Decoder is rubbish. Massoth already delivered them in 2007, so it's old technology.
Click to expand...

Quality is ok, but the problems is it only has 24 steps instead of the 128 steps most decoders have now.
Click to expand...

Surely you mean 28 steps, not 24? That was the standard even on a 55020 decoder. Can't say that only having 28 steps would be a huge source of concern to me. I'd be more concerned if the decoder couldn't support parallel inputs and/or didn't have back-EMF as standard.

Perhaps someone found a whole bunch of unsold 55021 decoders and used them up, rather than pay Massoth for the later "factory installed" version?

On the wider quality point, Marklin do seem to be dropping the ball even on the simplest things. The latest 600mm and 1200mm track pieces I've had from them did not have the intermediate rail joiners which keep the individual 300mm sleeper bases in place and add stiffness to the track section. I'd have been almost as well off buying flexi-track. By contrast, Piko's track has a very neat brass link between the 300mm sections which fulfils the joiners' purpose and does so more discreetly than a joiner - and Piko's track is cheaper too! No prizes for guessing whose track I've just had arrive in the post this morning. :bigsmile:
 
I'm also still tempted to buy it, but only if I can hold it in my hands in the shop to double-check if it's ok. I buy PIKO from webshops, but I don't do that with LGB anymore.. Just too afraid all sort of things are wrong..

@Whatlep: 28 indeed, oops.

Some PIKO R5 points arrived here today, I love them. Good quality.
 
yb281 said:
It's criminal that Marklin appear to be letting standards drop so badly, especially considering their pricing policy :@. Someone needs a boot up the backside.
Click to expand...
you only need to ask jeremy about that, 4 rhb 100 year locos later and i still havent got a perfect example. i have now had 2 of each of the new rhb100 year items and all have been damaged / loose parts one direct from the factory with the front drive unit just haning by the connecting wire, pivit point snaped clean off.
 
Zerogee said:
Even after selecting English as the language for the website, the posts still all appeared to me in German, but pasting the text from each useful-looking post into Babelfish gave me a rough translation - good enough to understand most of what was being said.
Jon.
Click to expand...
Have you tried using Google Chrome as your web-browser?
It will translate a huge range of languages.
If you have difficulty reading German it will give you a much better translation than Babelfish does (or as Babelfish might say "it will you much more better a translation give")
 
wandgrudd said:
yb281 said:
It's criminal that Marklin appear to be letting standards drop so badly, especially considering their pricing policy :@. Someone needs a boot up the backside.
Click to expand...
you only need to ask jeremy about that, 4 rhb 100 year locos later and i still havent got a perfect example. i have now had 2 of each of the new rhb100 year items and all have been damaged / loose parts one direct from the factory with the front drive unit just haning by the connecting wire, pivit point snaped clean off.
Click to expand...
Wow.. I'm stunned by this.. How is that possible? :(
 
You tell me, the packaging has changed in quality for one thing, cheaper card board and polystyrene,

both examples of the GE 4/4 rhb 100 loco have had the mirrors broken off do to the incorrect design of the box, when you lower the top part of the polystyrene down over the loco you have to force it over the loco the slightest movement during shipping causes them to rub against the packaging and the snap off.

The other problems are down to poor quality control in my book .
 
yb281 said:
It's criminal that Marklin appear to be letting standards drop so badly, especially considering their pricing policy :@. Someone needs a boot up the backside.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the only power we, the customers, really hold is simply not to buy the stuff - then all that will happen in the end is that they will drop the whole line as unprofitable, and we won't be able to get it at all. Either way, we lose out. :(
 
Over the last 2 years, I bought a number of items from Marklin-LGB and each had at least one problem with it. Most of the problems have to do with poor quality control; some have to do poor assembly skills, and most of the items made in Hungary are inadequately packaged. This is not LGB as we know it, and I do not believe that Marklin realizes that it has a problem.
Mohammed
 
I'm sure Marklin do take customer (and retailer) feedback seriously. I suspect whilst under administration they have struggled to do anything differently, and considered getting product 'out' into the market more important than addressing the quality issues. None of what has been said sounds expensive to address, given the right feedback to the Chinese or Hungarian manufacturing facilities, so let us hope that through 2011 the releases improve.

As for 'is the Kof worth £xxx, and anyone got one...' are they in the UK yet? I'd fancy one, they look quite nice to me - so I'm interested. I know you shouldn't need to address these issues, but in the short term I'm happy to make minor improvements. :)
 
Well, I'm only considering one at all because I really like the look of it - like you, James, I might be willing to overlook a few very minor things that need sorting out in order to get a loco that I want - though at the price they really SHOULD be good, of course. I'm not sure that they are actually in the UK shops quite yet, but their arrival is apparently imminent. Several German dealers have already got them on sale on ebay.de at quite variable prices, from about £310 upwards (after conversion from Euros, inc. shipping to UK). I may well wait till traders over here have them - if the quality problems weren't such an issue I'd happily order from Germany, but I don't want to have to ship it back there if something is wrong with it.
For almost ANYTHING else LGB, I'll stick to older second-hand stuff off evilBay, at least you know it'll be original LGB quality!

Jon.
 
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