No buffers?

SevenOfDiamonds

SevenOfDiamonds

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I've noticed that at least two of the prolific sellers of G scale rolling stock on that well known auction site are selling LGB wagons fitted with knuckle couplers, but where the buffer has been sawn off close to the buffer beam (as opposed to simply pulling the buffer from the shank) . . .

1722085423182.png1722084835097.png

Is this a common practice with knuckle couplers (to improve access for uncoupling, maybe)? Or is it just a quirk of one collector whose collection is now being sold off by various dealers (without that "defect" being mentioned in the descriptions)?

I've bought two items of rolling stock with this "modification" and while I was happy with what-I-got-for-what-I-paid (some sellers, even major players in this field, don't always know what it is that they've got!), it's a frustrating thing to have to try to reinstate.

Best wishes

David
 
Rhinochugger said:
I think in 1:1 land, you don't have buffers with knuckle couplers :nod::nod:
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On US railways, no, but some UK coaches do have a drop down knuckle coupler with buffers.

In the model world though, with centre buffers, then no would be my answer. I guess your items have been 'modified' by the previous owner....
 
SevenOfDiamonds said:
I've noticed that at least two of the prolific sellers of G scale rolling stock on that well known auction site are selling LGB wagons fitted with knuckle couplers, but where the buffer has been sawn off close to the buffer beam (as opposed to simply pulling the buffer from the shank) . . .

View attachment 330886View attachment 330885

Is this a common practice with knuckle couplers (to improve access for uncoupling, maybe)? Or is it just a quirk of one collector whose collection is now being sold off by various dealers (without that "defect" being mentioned in the descriptions)?

I've bought two items of rolling stock with this "modification" and while I was happy with what-I-got-for-what-I-paid (some sellers, even major players in this field, don't always know what it is that they've got!), it's a frustrating thing to have to try to reinstate.

Best wishes

David
Click to expand...
Looking at those photos again, the centre buffer would probably foul the knuckle on the bends. Our G scale knuckle couplers are healthily over scale :nod::nod:
 
It would very much depend on the height the KD’s are mounted, some have them on the ‘headstocks’ (buffer beam to us UK types) some on bogies. I believe there is much debate by KD users on the best location much as we have debates about “what is G scale”.
 
dunnyrail said:
It would very much depend on the height the KD’s are mounted, some have them on the ‘headstocks’ (buffer beam to us UK types) some on bogies. I believe there is much debate by KD users on the best location much as we have debates about “what is G scale”.
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I don't think they're KDs, I think they're LGB or Bachmann knuckles.

Yep - bogie mount or body mount :worried::worried:

I have both, plus some link and pin :emo::emo:
 
Gizzy said:
On US railways, no, but some UK coaches do have a drop down knuckle coupler with buffers.

In the model world though, with centre buffers, then no would be my answer. I guess your items have been 'modified' by the previous owner....
Click to expand...
Buckeye/Knuckle couplers perform the buffer job and transmit any forces through the draw bar and on to the dragbox, on coaching stock the gangway also acts as a buffer(think of the construction behind the buffer beam) so no need for buffers.
Right a bit of a over view of British rolling stock,
On loco hauled coaches up MK 3s (unsure on Mk 4s) including Pullmans, they where built with a normal drawbar/coupling hook but have what we call a "drop head buckeye" which can be raised or lowered, in the lower position, you have coupling hook and buffers. Raised, the buffers have a saddle which needs to removed so the buffers can be pushed back out of the way, then the buckeye can be coupled, warning! you can't couple 2 coaches with the buffers out or in the "long position" however it is possible to couple using the buckeyes with the buffers out on one coach only, but you are going to have a long day trying to split them again due to the extra pressure on the now compressed buffers, plus something like a class 47 either end to compress the to release the buckeye again! :eek::rolleyes:
Mk 3 HST coaches have a fixed buckeye and no buffers as they are a fixed unit.
Ex BR locos class 33/73/90s all have drop head buckeyes as do the out ends of the Royal Mail 325 units. (as far as I know all the class 90s have had their buckeyes removed and have standard couplings/buffers except 90001/2 at LSL)

When EWS took over in the 90s, they invested in new freight wagons and class 66s which had coupling hook with a swing buckeye coupler, a lot easier to move into position than having to lift a drophead!
these couplings are longer, s there is no need to have buffers that need to be shortened/lengthened. Note only EWS 66s have these apart from 66001/2 which never got done as protypes, they where used for type testing, Freightliner, DRS, Colas and GB railfeight aren't fitted.

All multiple units have various type of buckeye/knuckle couplers with built in electrical connections.

Hope this helps, I will post some diagrams/pics when I get chance it folks are interested.

Well, that the UK sorted, feel free to have a lie down now:drunk:
 
Fezwig said:
Buckeye/Knuckle couplers perform the buffer job and transmit any forces through the draw bar and on to the dragbox, on coaching stock the gangway also acts as a buffer(think of the construction behind the buffer beam) so no need for buffers.
Right a bit of a over view of British rolling stock,
On loco hauled coaches up MK 3s (unsure on Mk 4s) including Pullmans, they where built with a normal drawbar/coupling hook but have what we call a "drop head buckeye" which can be raised or lowered, in the lower position, you have coupling hook and buffers. Raised, the buffers have a saddle which needs to removed so the buffers can be pushed back out of the way, then the buckeye can be coupled, warning! you can't couple 2 coaches with the buffers out or in the "long position" however it is possible to couple using the buckeyes with the buffers out on one coach only, but you are going to have a long day trying to split them again due to the extra pressure on the now compressed buffers, plus something like a class 47 either end to compress the to release the buckeye again! :eek::rolleyes:
Mk 3 HST coaches have a fixed buckeye and no buffers as they are a fixed unit.
Ex BR locos class 33/73/90s all have drop head buckeyes as do the out ends of the Royal Mail 325 units. (as far as I know all the class 90s have had their buckeyes removed and have standard couplings/buffers except 90001/2 at LSL)

When EWS took over in the 90s, they invested in new freight wagons and class 66s which had coupling hook with a swing buckeye coupler, a lot easier to move into position than having to lift a drophead!
these couplings are longer, s there is no need to have buffers that need to be shortened/lengthened. Note only EWS 66s have these apart from 66001/2 which never got done as protypes, they where used for type testing, Freightliner, DRS, Colas and GB railfeight aren't fitted.

All multiple units have various type of buckeye/knuckle couplers with built in electrical connections.

Hope this helps, I will post some diagrams/pics when I get chance it folks are interested.

Well, that the UK sorted, feel free to have a lie down now:drunk:
Click to expand...
Yes, I steered well away from SR EMUs in my post - I think we could send people to sleep before the end :rock::rock::rock::rock:

Just simply say, the masters of multiple coupling;);)
 
PhilP said:
Ah! So my 66001 might not have the correct 'thing' on it. :wondering::worried:

PhilP
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Here's a couple of pics, first of 66001 show just the normal screw coupling. 002 is the same.

66001_at_Didcot.jpg

And 66015 at Springs Branch Wigan where you can see the swing buckeye to the left of the coupling hook, the bars above it are the rods to open the buckeye jaws to release/split the buckeyes.
Springs Branch 1.JPG
 
Rhinochugger said:
I don't think they're KDs, I think they're LGB or Bachmann knuckles.

Yep - bogie mount or body mount :worried::worried:

I have both, plus some link and pin :emo::emo:
Click to expand...
Yes you are right, should have looked closer but comments apply equaly to them types as well, they are mounted on the normal LGB type coupling bar looking like the buffer needed removal on the short cheepie toy train wagons for them to be operated correctly.
 
Gizzy said:
On US railways, no, but some UK coaches do have a drop down knuckle coupler with buffers.

In the model world though, with centre buffers, then no would be my answer. I guess your items have been 'modified' by the previous owner....
Click to expand...
older uk stock did indeed have what was called the buck eye behind the coupler ,my induction for train guard back in the 90s was to practice how to lift the buckeye
you had to get under it lift slightly and retract the pin then letting go swiftly and let it swing down ...still remember a man fainting as he tried to hold it to too long

lifting the unit back up was a getting the pin lined up ready and swinging the coupler back up and slotting the pin back in ideally first time then its back into normal uk passenger coupling
but was only used if no compatible coupler was available then it can drop and connect to anything
 
W@nder1er said:
older uk stock did indeed have what was called the buck eye behind the coupler ,my induction for train guard back in the 90s was to practice how to lift the buckeye
you had to get under it lift slightly and retract the pin then letting go swiftly and let it swing down ...still remember a man fainting as he tried to hold it to too long

lifting the unit back up was a getting the pin lined up ready and swinging the coupler back up and slotting the pin back in ideally first time then its back into normal uk passenger coupling
but was only used if no compatible coupler was available then it can drop and connect to anything
Click to expand...
The use of coupling systems on narrow gauge railways is of great historical interest. The Norwegian “chopper” (devised by Pihl) became a de facto standard due to the adoption of sharp curves, avoiding the problem of buffer locking. Somehow the QGR (Queensland Govt Railways) avoided the problem, good engineering design practice by Fitzgibbon, Fox, Ballard, Stanley etc?, when the hinterland penetrating railway systems were constructed, viz the Great Northern from Townsville, the Central West (or Midland) from Rockhampton and the West & Southwestern from Ipswich, the head of river navigation - then later the capital Brisbane. Edmund Morel, father of Japan’s railways kept the Queensland standards, so the double buffer system was adopted, was this due to his earlier experience in Australia and New Zealand ( NZ went the chopper way). Morel’s antipodean engineering experience is really not well documented.

Only with late 20th century modernisation: 25 kv electricification of the new coal and Brisbane urban railways , dieselization in place of steam on the rebuilt copper mineral Great Northern line to Mt Isa, requiring new rolling stock led to the adoption of new coupling systems.
The QGR was a world pioneer in the introduction of of the 3ft 6 inch gauge leading to its adoption in the British colonies of New Zealand and the Cape Colony as well as the Dutch East Indies colony and the Empire of Japan.

As the 20th century progressed the QGR built the first Australian passenger rolling stock riding on roller bearing axle bogies, the choice being between air-conditioning or ride comfort for the new “1000” mile Sunshine Express service linking Brisbane to Cairns via Bundaberg, Gladstone, Rockhampton, Mackay and Townsville on the completion of the North Coast Railway in December 1924.
Post WWII this service was upgraded to a diesel-electric hauled air-conditioned (at last) steel passenger carriages (M & L classes) known as the “Sunlander”, 1953. Then morphing into the luxury “Queenslander” 1992, until being replaced by a modern integrated tilting diesel powered train (only 2 sets) now called the “Spirit of Queensland” to complement the “The Spirit of the Outback” luxury service originating in Brisbane in place of the “ Midlander” originating in Rockhampton, to Longreach, home of the “Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Service” (QANTAS, for short) Museum.

Thanks for reading this wandering subject topic message re narrow gauge rolling stock coupling systems.
 
Fezwig said:
you can't couple 2 coaches with the buffers out or in the "long position" however it is possible to couple using the buckeyes with the buffers out on one coach only, but you are going to have a long day trying to split them again due to the extra pressure on the now compressed buffers, plus something like a class 47 either end to compress the to release the buckeye again! :eek::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

They managed it at St Pancras one day in the late 1970s. Mr Oxy-Acetylene got the job of splitting them apart.
 
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