Out door cable

[Gizzy]

just a thaught to this thred,,, theres a product now for plumbing where instead of soldering fittings you can glue them together a superglue for copper,,, i wonder if this will work on brass track,,,,

any thaughts,,,,,

davey b

I wouldn't have thought it would conduct elektrikery Davey.

Adhesives tend to be insulating rather than conducting....

 

[Zman]

just a thaught to this thred,,, theres a product now for plumbing where instead of soldering fittings you can glue them together a superglue for copper,,, i wonder if this will work on brass track,,,,

any thaughts,,,,,

davey b

I wouldn't have thought it would conduct elektrikery Davey.

Adhesives tend to be insulating rather than conducting....

Quite right Gizzy, the product has been available for several years - Just For Copper (http://www.solderlesscopperbonding.com/pg/section.html?secpath=01.08.&pgid=3 ) - and, to wuote from their webpage;

"A join made with Just For Copper will not conduct electricity. For electrical earthing purposes you should treat a Just For Copper join in the same manner as a plastic connection. "

 

[stockers]

Just to add my method to the melting pot. Not revolutionary nor neccesarily the best - but its easy and it works for me.

My transformers and MTS are indoors, connected to the track by 2.5mm mains cable (about a 6 metre run).
All joints are filled with LGB paste - a single tube should last a lifetime. A few of mt track sections are Aristo or USA Trains - these have the screws fitted and tightened.
The 2.5mm feed is connected to the circuit in two places - the nearest and then the opposite side.

As per the advert - Simples.

 

[GrahamMills]

Just to add my method to the melting pot. Not revolutionary nor neccesarily the best - but its easy and it works for me.

My transformers and MTS are indoors, connected to the track by 2.5mm mains cable (about a 6 metre run).
All joints are filled with LGB paste - a single tube should last a lifetime. A few of mt track sections are Aristo or USA Trains - these have the screws fitted and tightened.
The 2.5mm feed is connected to the circuit in two places - the nearest and then the opposite side.

As per the advert - Simples.

My approach is very similar except that I have a double circuit. So a lead to the track and then 3 links between inner and outer circuits at 90, 180 & 270 degrees as it were.
Seems to work very well and I hardly need to clean the track.

 

[stevedenver]

im with stockers on this one

while electrical jumpers and clamps are great-unbeatable in fact-and allow for intrusion in to the joint with lasting conductivity

if you use a new clean well fitted TIGHT LGB joint-with a touch of conductive paste-

this is extremely effective, weather resistant and long lasting

the key is the inside of the joiner must be clean and corrosion free-ie bright metal- then tightness and correct alignment and GUNK 


with no alteration to your stock track  

IMNSOHO-i replace aristo joiners with LGB where possible-PECOS are also quite sturdy-my Aristo joiners are quite flimsy and weaken with only a bit of corrosion or repeated bending-the weal link in aristo track

 

[minimans]

Well bit of an overkill but it would work!!

 

[Neil Robinson]

. . . . and for STAINLESS STEEL track?. . .no soldering here (or drilling)! guess it has to be clamps etc.,:thinking:

I have a suspicion that you can solder to stainless steel with the appropriate flux.
I think Phosphoric acid will do the trick. A rust treatment used to be sold under the trade name of "Jenolite" which was basically Phosphoric acid.

 

[pugwash]

[h3]From Wikipedia:[/h3] [h3]Rust removal[/h3] Phosphoric acid may be used as a "rust converter", by direct application to rusted iron, steel tools, or surfaces. The phosphoric acid converts reddish-brown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_oxide < Link To iron(III) oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust < Link To rust) to black http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_phosphate < Link To ferric phosphate, FePO4.
"Rust converter" is sometimes a greenish liquid suitable for dipping (in the same sort of acid bath as is used for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickling_(metal) < Link To pickling metal), but it is more often formulated as a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel < Link To gel, commonly called naval jelly. It is sometimes sold under other names, such as "rust remover" or "rust killer". As a thick gel, it may be applied to sloping, vertical, or even overhead surfaces.
After treatment, the black ferric-phosphate coating can be scrubbed off, leaving a fresh metal surface. Multiple applications of phosphoric acid may be required to remove all rust. The black phosphate coating can also be left in place, where it will provide moderate further corrosion resistance. (Such protection is also provided by the superficially similar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerize < Link To Parkerizing and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_(steel) < Link To blued electrochemical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_coating < Link To conversion coating processes.)


And we thought 'naval jelly' was something completely different. Oops, here comes Tag

 

[spike]

. . . . and for STAINLESS STEEL track?. . .no soldering here (or drilling)! guess it has to be clamps etc.,:thinking:

I have a suspicion that you can solder to stainless steel with the appropriate flux.
I think Phosphoric acid will do the trick. A rust treatment used to be sold under the trade name of "Jenolite" which was basically Phosphoric acid.

Correct.
Plus you can solder normally if it's already tinned.
Just this last week I had to rewind a machinetool clutch coil that was embedded in a stainless casing.
Both coil connections made to the stainless, previously tinned so the normally multicore took to it readily.

 

[MR SPOCK]

[align=center]The oddity about using thicker cable and not being very good is also the type of cable.

Flexible alarm cable is stranded wire and is also tinned to prevent Tarnish. Ordinary mains cable is usually plain copper, when this dulls with exposure to water and air, electricity struggles.

It is not widely known, but electricity will only travel along the outside of a conductor not actually through it, on big pylons and underground cables, the 'cable' is often tubular like pipes, so there is more conductive area, so using stranded wire is the best option, plus clean conductors.

The best to use is loudspeaker cable, as long as the conductors are tinned, however alarm cable is ok, but short lengths would be better or double up the cores.

Water can seep into cables with cappillary action and increase resistance, so at the ends keep them in a dry place and seal any terminal boxes with silicon seal.

I would also avoid mixing metal in a joint , some of the connector blocks around have a nice brass connector but have steel screws that rot away and will cuase the connection to fail, better to use crimps, or best and permanant solder.
[/align]

 

[ntpntpntp]

[align=center]
It is not widely known, but electricity will only travel along the outside of a conductor not actually through it, on big pylons and underground cables, the 'cable' is often tubular like pipes, so there is more conductive area, so using stranded wire is the best option, plus clean conductors.
[/align]

I believe the "Skin Effect" is really only relevant for AC, and at higher voltages and frequencies than we're talking about for model railway track. power . Must admit I tend to use multi-strand cabling, simply for it's better flexibility.

 

[Neil Robinson]

[align=center]It is not widely known, but electricity will only travel along the outside of a conductor not actually through it, on big pylons and underground cables, the 'cable' is often tubular like pipes,

[/align] [align=left]I believe this "skin effect" is a function of frequency therefore not applicable to DC installations and only of concern with ac when the frequency is much greater than commonly used mains frequencies and/or much thicker cable than found in domestic installations.

I would also avoid mixing metal in a joint , some of the connector blocks around have a nice brass connector but have steel screws that rot away and will cuase the connection to fail, better to use crimps, or best and permanant solder.

I doubt it's quite that simple as a soldered joint would typically mix copper, lead and tin. Goodness knows what is in "lead free" solder, I choose to avoid the stuff!
[/align]

 

[ntpntpntp]

EEC rules say = To be used in ALL new electrical goods for sale requiring soldering.
Old type (containing lead) MAY be used to only repair equipment.

Fortunately doesn't apply to private individuals for personal use. I'm with Neil on this one - I avoid the lead-free stuff.

 

[spike]

[align=center]
It is not widely known, but electricity will only travel along the outside of a conductor not actually through it, on big pylons and underground cables, the 'cable' is often tubular like pipes, so there is more conductive area, so using stranded wire is the best option, plus clean conductors.
[/align]

I believe the "Skin Effect" is really only relevant for AC, and at higher voltages and frequencies than we're talking about for model railway track. power . Must admit I tend to use multi-strand cabling, simply for it's better flexibility.

At 50>60Hz the skin depth is approx 8.5mm.

Quite a few large long distance transmission grids now use HVDC to try and overcome the losses and connect differing
AC grids..
Itaipu in S.America has a 6300Megawatt 600KV line and the Chinese are doing one at 5000Megawatt 800KV.

 

[Neil Robinson]

EEC rules say = To be used in ALL new electrical goods for sale requiring soldering.
Old type (containing lead) MAY be used to only repair equipment.

Fortunately doesn't apply to private individuals for personal use. I'm with Neil on this one - I avoid the lead-free stuff.

What's more I believe equipment solely for military and national security purposes is excluded from the ban on leaded solder as well as medical devices and monitoring and control instruments.
A cynic may interpret this to read if reliability is really important don't use it.

 

[MR SPOCK]

[align=center]I do agree with that point about AC frequency,also penetration of conductors (skin effect) but if DCC type systems are in use (which use high frequency ac) any bad connection or dry joint will add to the misery of poor and unreliable running, added to that a carrier voltage so low, and dozens of track joints exposed to elements , it goes or it stops.

I use what was once called Infinate BusBar system, no doubt there will be some silly name for it now, it worked for the Victorian tramway sytem, and it works for me, saves lots of track scrubbing, and complicated wiring.
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