Piko Radio Receiver Failure - any advice please?

[rgsmg53]

I've had a Piko Central Station (35010), a Radio Module (35012) and 3 x Navigators (35011) for about 10 years now and the whole system has always worked perfectly on my lightly-used indoor layout. Yesterday, the Radio Module failed.

I'm sure it is Radio Module failure as I have connected each of the Navigators to the Central Station using the hard wire option (bus cable) and they all work pefectly. I've also removed the Radio circuit board from its housing and swapped the bus cable itself but the fault persists. Sometimes the Navigators show 'RC disabled' and sometimes the radio aerial symbol in top right shows no / low signal - even with the Navigator held close to the aerial.

From the RC config menu on the Navigators I see that these are 433Mz units (which I thought were bomb-proof) which seems to have been replaced these days by 2.4Mz units (which I understand are far from bomb-proof!). So I've got a whole load of questions for you experts out there:

1. Anyone know whether the 35012 units can be repaired and / or a potential source for a pre-owned unit?
2. How similar are the Massoth and Piko systems? (I understand Massoth made the Piko units.) Might I have the option to try to source a Massoth 433Mz Radio Module which would work with the Piko Central station?
3. If I ended up going for a new 2.4Mz Piko (Version 2) Radio Module and new Navigators, would they work OK with my Piko Central Station?
4. Depending on the answers to 1 - 3 above, I can see the Nuclear Option being replacement of the whole DCC power system. If I had to go that way, what systems would people recommend?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[PhilP]

I would make a note of all model and serial numbers, then email Piko and Massoth. I think you may get more response from Massoth, as my experience with Piko technical, has not been good.

Best of luck.
PhilP.

 

[rgsmg53]

Many thanks for the quick reply.

I too have had poor response from Piko in the past. Am I correct in my belief that Massoth make / made all the hardware for Piko?

 

[PhilP]

Many thanks for the quick reply.

I too have had poor response from Piko in the past. Am I correct in my belief that Massoth make / made all the hardware for Piko?

To the best of my knowledge, yes.

PhilP.

 

[Software Tools]

From the RC config menu on the Navigators I see that these are 433Mz units (which I thought were bomb-proof) which seems to have been replaced these days by 2.4Mz units (which I understand are far from bomb-proof!).

The 2.4GHz radio are in fact far more reliable then the 433MHz radios in my direct experience.

I can see the Nuclear Option being replacement of the whole DCC power system. If I had to go that way, what systems would people recommend?

The Piko DCC kit is made by Massoth and is fully compatible in both directions. Massoth makes an upgrade kit for the 433MHz Navigators to allow them to work at 2.4GHz plus you would need a 2.4GHz receiver from either Piko or Massoth)

 

[rgsmg53]

The 2.4GHz radio are in fact far more reliable then the 433MHz radios in my direct experience.



The Piko DCC kit is made by Massoth and is fully compatible in both directions. Massoth makes an upgrade kit for the 433MHz Navigators to allow them to work at 2.4GHz plus you would need a 2.4GHz receiver from either Piko or Massoth)

Thank you for this.

I'm now back up and running thanks to GartenBahn Supplies here in the UK who had a p/x'd used Massoth transceiver which they tested and sold to me for a very reasonable price.

From what I've discovered from various sources whilst trying to solve my problem, I agree that it seems the Massoth 2.4 GHz units now operate more reliably. Apparently the initial relaease of their 2.4GHz units was a 'disaster' (I'm told) and many were returned to the factory for repair / modification at the time. The current units have a different board in them.

Whilst Massoth and Piko may be fully compatible in terms of design, it is not a case of 'plug & play'. In addition, there are surprising differences in quality of construction - I had assumed the Piko kit was 'badge engineered' Massoth kit. This is certainly not the case - or wasn't when mine was made.

Gartenbahn Supplies could have obtained new Massoth 2.4Ghz transceiver boards to retro-fit into my hand-held Navigators to upgrade them to 2.4Ghz units. The only problem here is that this will only work once the Navigator firmware has been upgraded. This is fine if one already has a Massoth central station with a PC interface but there is no way to do this with a Piko central station - at least not with one as old as mine. In my case, this would have meant sending all three handhelds back for firmware upgrades and conversion to 2.4Ghz which would have cost me only £100 less than a complete new Digitrax wireless system for instance.

So, unfortunately, the writing is on the wall for my Piko system. The next failure will almost certainly precipitate me into buying a new DCC control system with up-to-date computer connectivity. Mine is a loft layout so there is no point in me paying a premium for weather-proof units.

Hope my experience is of some use to others in a similar situation.

 

[PhilP]

Look at the mXion kit...

PhilP.

 

[rgsmg53]

Look at the mXion kit...

PhilP.

I may be missing something but I can't see anything on mXion's (German) website that would fit the bill. However, it appears that Amazing Little Trains is their UK distributor and is advertising two types of central station. Is this what you were meaning?

Details are sparse on the ALT website - there doesn't seem to be any hand-held controllers to mate with it for instance. However, I'm wondering whether there's an outside chance the mXion central station will talk to Piko Navigators (although very doubtful that it will do that via 433MHz frequency that mine currently use!).

 

[MTheStrong]

I may be missing something but I can't see anything on mXion's (German) website that would fit the bill. However, it appears that Amazing Little Trains is their UK distributor and is advertising two types of central station. Is this what you were meaning?

Details are sparse on the ALT website - there doesn't seem to be any hand-held controllers to mate with it for instance. However, I'm wondering whether there's an outside chance the mXion central station will talk to Piko Navigators (although very doubtful that it will do that via 433MHz frequency that mine currently use!).

Here with the link to Mxion's central stations and controllers: Steuerung - mXion Modellbahntechnik


The mX ion30Z is our strongest and at the same time best control panel on the market. In addition to the 30A track exit, the 30Z offers a separate programming track with 3A, which can be connected to the main track by insulation to enable an exit point. The 30Z also offers a large display that shows all important parameters and a sophisticated menu navigation that allows settings to be made directly on the device. As a special feature, it should be mentioned that the 30Z supports all common bus systems (LocoNet, XpressNet, S88, RS-Bus and USB) as well as all common protocols (DCC, Motorola, Selektrix). Automatic functions can also be activated, which enable the control of processes without a PC. Model railway time with adjustable factor is available, as well as various possibilities for short-circuit detection and monitoring. WLAN with z21 protocol as well as RFM radio is built-in for wireless control. The 30Z is fully z21 compatible and supports the Massoth-DiMax USB protocol. Overvoltage and undervoltage protection is also implemented. Up to 100 locomotives can be controlled and stored at the same time (levels 14, 28 and 128 possible). It is also possible to control an analogue locomotive. The control center has the possibility to control up to 10239 locomotives, F0-F68 and 2048 points. The integrated Wi-Fi makes it possible to use both the Wi-Fi mouse and the z21 APP.

 

[rgsmg53]

Here with the link to Mxion's central stations and controllers: Steuerung - mXion Modellbahntechnik


The mX ion30Z is our strongest and at the same time best control panel on the market. In addition to the 30A track exit, the 30Z offers a separate programming track with 3A, which can be connected to the main track by insulation to enable an exit point. The 30Z also offers a large display that shows all important parameters and a sophisticated menu navigation that allows settings to be made directly on the device. As a special feature, it should be mentioned that the 30Z supports all common bus systems (LocoNet, XpressNet, S88, RS-Bus and USB) as well as all common protocols (DCC, Motorola, Selektrix). Automatic functions can also be activated, which enable the control of processes without a PC. Model railway time with adjustable factor is available, as well as various possibilities for short-circuit detection and monitoring. WLAN with z21 protocol as well as RFM radio is built-in for wireless control. The 30Z is fully z21 compatible and supports the Massoth-DiMax USB protocol. Overvoltage and undervoltage protection is also implemented. Up to 100 locomotives can be controlled and stored at the same time (levels 14, 28 and 128 possible). It is also possible to control an analogue locomotive. The control center has the possibility to control up to 10239 locomotives, F0-F68 and 2048 points. The integrated Wi-Fi makes it possible to use both the Wi-Fi mouse and the z21 APP.

Many thanks. Interesting.

 

[PhilP]

Think that answers your questions, better than I could..

PhilP.

 

[Software Tools]

Whilst Massoth and Piko may be fully compatible in terms of design, it is not a case of 'plug & play'

Massoth sells DCC componentry which is very definitely not plug and play.... it requires some learning/effort to install but is very flexible.

Piko packaging of Massoth technology is intended to be mostly plug and play, but as soon as you step outside of fairly basic operations then the masked complexity emerges again.

The Massoth and Piko parts are fully compatible, but the inherent complexity of any DCC system is always lurking under the surface, no matter which brand you choose.