Poor Performance on Gradients! Lawley V Lady Anne.

Hello Rob G calling...

During my recent "adjustments" on Edrig, I found it's quite possible to get the loco going like the clappers in one direction only (probably reverse), with no movement in the other.

I've just been to the shed and photographed my Lawley's reverser valve.
Not briliant pics, but this collage may be clear enough to see the guide line positions.
bca11b2c38de4b90b2af5e22c7d3b03e.jpg

In full reverse, the line is just visible against the valve body.
 
My scribed line is not in view in full reverse. If I set mine like your pic, there is still a small amount left to go.
If the weather improves tomorrow I will have a play and adjust and see what I fined. Both the piston valves
on the near and offside are also wrong. At 6'oclock both scribed lines are about 1mm out and in view.Adjustment required there as well. Thanks for the pics.
 
I have just caught up with this one and spotted the reference to the Summerlands Chuffer. These do not strangle the exhaust in any way - in fact the nozzle size in the chuffer is bigger than the hole in the standard exhaust fitting! Believe it or not, the same sized exhaust is found on the Accucraft K-27 and K-28 and these are HUGE and very powerful locos. Having said that, if someone offers you a free one because it "strangles" his loco -just nod and say thank you :)

I think the timing issue will sort it, as in my experience both RH and Acc locos have huge reserves of power. I have just done a quick calculation though and find that the 9/16' RH cylinders have 25% more area than the Acc 1/2" ones and that the Lawley is 17% heavier than the LA. But then the power all depends on the steam pressure so it probably makes little difference if it is all adjusted correctly.
Cheers
Chris
 
Redtail said:
My scribed line is not in view in full reverse. If I set mine like your pic, there is still a small amount left to go.
If the weather improves tomorrow I will have a play and adjust and see what I fined. Both the piston valves
on the near and offside are also wrong. At 6'oclock both scribed lines are about 1mm out and in view.Adjustment required there as well. Thanks for the pics.

The scribed line is a good starting point, but experimentation may well prove that an extra (or fewer) half turn (or less) will gain a little more eveness bewteen F. and R.

Happy hunting!
 
Redtail said:
I have just carried out a static test on blocks.It is obvious to me and the finance officer
that there is a huge difference between forward and reverse, the sound and movrment it makes and the volume of steam produced. For someone with limited engineering skill does this mean the timing is out of kilter? Can anyone help as to what to do next.
I didn't think to run the loco yesterday on the track in reverse so as stated found this out only on test.
timing is out. I sent full details of this in a PM which I don't have a record of. As soon as I can I will rewrite and post.
 
Thanks Chaps to all the responses this thread has generated. Tag I look forward to your PM with the necessary.Dont forget it has a long way to come!! and to a Devonian:bigsmile:
Dont worry Chris both my chuffers are money well spent. Many admirers up here in the far North:thumbup: thanks Rob I will have a read of the article.
You feel a little out of it this far North with garden railways, so its nice to have friendly
advice to problems over the tinternet!
 
Redtail said:
Thanks Chaps to all the responses this thread has generated. Tag I look forward to your PM with the necessary.Dont forget it has a long way to come!! and to a Devonian:bigsmile:
Dont worry Chris both my chuffers are money well spent. Many admirers up here in the far North:thumbup: thanks Rob I will have a read of the article.
You feel a little out of it this far North with garden railways, so its nice to have friendly
advice to problems over the tinternet!
Timing an Accucraft generic locomotive

Poor performance can often be down to bad timing and given that Accucraft locos are not AFAIK actively steamed, the heating and reheating of a new locomotive can loosen stuff off. This can happen to any locomotive, but generally Roundhouse locomotives have steamings before sale, which will generally settle things down. Instructions for either suggest checking that everything is tight during the first few steamings.

To time your loco first of all put the locomotive starboard side down on a cloth covered surface. Move the lever on the reversing quadrant into the full reverse position. The scribed line on the reversing piston valve just below the smokebox should just disappear into the steam chest. Try it a two or three times ? especially if your eyes are getting as duff as mine. If the valve goes too far in or is still visible, then loosen the locknut on the after end of the threaded section on the end of the piston valve. You will now be able to wind the valve in or out using the nut on the forrard end of the threaded section hard against the piston valve itself until it is in the correct position. Secure with the locknut.

Leave the locomotive on its side and we can check the position of the piston valve on the port cylinder. Turn the wheels clockwise and the scribed should start to disappear into the steam chest as the axle cracks reach 6 o clock and should have reappeared by twenty-five to.. If not adjust the piston valve as just described for the reverser valve. Turn the locomotive over and repeat for the port side.

The loco is now timed and will function. One can now make slight adjustments on a rolling road (or blocks). For instance it is almost impossible to get the loco running in exactly the same way in forward and reverse gear. I therefore (if anything) go for a very slight forward bias cos I mostly run smokebox first. This is not enough to make bunker first running a pain but better this way than the other.

One can also do a quick check culled from my Merlin days. With the locomotive turning over at a steady speed put your heatproof finger on one of the cylinder piston valves and give it a slight forward bias or push whilst running. Try again but pushing back. If either of these makes a discernable difference to the running then the valve may be adjusted in or out very slightly as required. If it works better with a forward finger bias then turn the valve IN a quarter of turn ? and vice-versa of course.

Couple more bits and pieces.

Get a chuff pipe. They cost s*d all in the context of the loco price and are easy to fit, work very well and do not choke the exhaust.

Until Accucraft modify their firing system (which is being worked on at the moment) one can either exchange the burner for a Milton Loco Works one or modify the one you have. Easiest way is to use a bit of stainless steel mesh. Cut to the length of your burner tube and something less then the diameter of your burner. Form round a pencil then slide on the tube like a condom ­ but with the butt joint opposite the slots. Wind your gas regulator right out of the shaft and lubricate threads and 0 ring with starters (KY jelly or Vaseline) then replace.

When firing your loco, half fill the gas tank before lighting. Bring up to steam, close the gas regulator then top up the gas. Much easier to light this way.

If you find that your loco has developed a ?weep? between steam chest and cylinder then the crosshead screws on the top of the steam chest will need tightening. This looks hard but isn?t. Remove the body shell ? depending on loco six or eight hex head screws and Accucraft provide the nut twirler to do this. Undo the linkage between the reversing quadrant and the bellcrank (usually just a nut on the bellcrank itself). Turn the loco on its side and undo the two or four hex head bolts holding the smokebox on. Remove smokebox. Undo the connection now revealed from the main steam pipe to the steam manifold between the cylinders. Use two spenners so that you don?t bend the pipes. Undo the six or eight screws holding the running plate to the actual chassis, usually two in the front, two in the middle and two on the back for a four coupled Accucraft.

You will find the whole lot, boiler and fittings, reverser etc etc, will just lift of the chassis ? superb design work making it so easy to work on. You will see the cross headed screws on top of the steam chests. ?Nip? these up, working with opposite screws like fitting a car engine cylinder head. Put the lot back together in reverse order (don?t forget to reconnect the reversing reach rod). You will not only have cured the weep but you will feel you know your locomotive much better.

Don?t use Roundhouse light oil. Use oil supplied or standard thick steam oil as sold at shows.

Do some serious running in, preferably on a line with expansive curves. You will find you get longer and longer runs and of course the burner will then become quieter. My Accucraft locos are no noisier than my Roundhouse ones.

Degrease below the footplate every few runs with water-based spray degreaser and a brush. Leave to soak in and then wash with a garden spray on ?jet? before leaving to drip dry in the garden and then over night indoors over a bit of old newspaper. Re-oil every moving part lightly with motor-oil. Don?t try this last paragraph with Roundhouse locos ? the running gear will rust. With Roundhouse use paraffin to wash down and degrease.

Hope above is useful.
 
Thanks Tag, I will attend to this straight away, although due to the delightful weather track testing will have to wait until later.
 
May I also thank Tag for that comprehensive posting.
I've seen most of it on previous occasions, but it's good to have it all in one go.
My Edrig/Owain had another good run.
Did stall on a 1:20, but after about 20 secs was able to re-start his train.
Very satisfying.

A little question relating to oil...
All three of my Accy locos develop a thick drippy coating of oil around the reverser valve block.
Is there a practical way to reduce this?
I would imagine a smaller hole in the steam pipe through the lubricator might be the answer, but not so easy to do.
 
Accucraft locos with piston valves are reversed by the central "swap" piston valve, I have seen a very few in which this "swap" valve had an internal leak across the intake[steam] passage and the exhaust passage,the "land" which provides the seal is narrow and even though its static during running the leakage can be severe enough to lower pulling power and drop the pressure quickly.
to diagnose steam the loco, clamp the drive wheels tightly, in forward gear open the regulator a small amount , and listen at the stack, a hissing up the exhaust pipe is the indication of the leakage..
There is a cure but it needs a lathe , fine [1mm wide] parting off tool and 2 off 3mm by 1mm section Orings.and a skilled machinist.
A minor point is that Accucraft locos are glanded, with the exception of early Ruby 0-4-0s the Oring is under the outer cylinder cover.

Gordon.
 
taperpin said:
even though its static during running the leakage can be severe enough to lower pulling power and drop the pressure quickly.
Gordon.

Thank you, Gordon.
This would perhaps explain the tendency to blow-by in general.
I'll give them a test, although there is usually some hissing until the loco starts moving.
I do have a lathe (Chinese) but it's the skilled machinist part that's lacking.
I can probably live with the oil drips!
 
It is interesting the comments about Accucraft locos needing higher pressures to run. My Edrig runs like " clappers " on 60 lbs., but will happily run on 10 lbs. too. The two newest models the " Porter" and the " Plantation " both run on 10lbs very nicely. They done a great job on setting up the valve gear on these. Both of these models ran perfectly riight out of the box. I have gotten 25 minutes of run on the Porter with a Goodall valve intstalled. The limiting factor is the smaller gas they are now fitted with.
Charles M
 
Charles M said:
It is interesting the comments about Accucraft locos needing higher pressures to run.
Charles M
Charles,
My input to this thread concerned performance of older locos on curved grades of 1:20 with 32mm gauge.
Some other inputs were under "Poorly Edrig" and "Fits in well methinks".
After some fettling, the older Edrig is now managing fairly well. My 4 yrs old Lawley is OK.
Both locos do need a "run" at the grades.

We wait to hear progress with Redtail's newer Lawley.
 
I finished making the adjusments early this afternoon and only a raised up test.
The movement and sound is much better.I was hoping to try a track test but wind and rain has
won yet again! I will update after I have track tested.I think it may need a little tweak to favour forward running.
 
MRail said:
taperpin said:
even though its static during running the leakage can be severe enough to lower pulling power and drop the pressure quickly.
Gordon.

Thank you, Gordon.
This would perhaps explain the tendency to blow-by in general.
I'll give them a test, although there is usually some hissing until the loco starts moving.
I do have a lathe (Chinese) but it's the skilled machinist part that's lacking.
I can probably live with the oil drips!
order a new set of valves steam chests. 20mins to replace. If any one has a new Accucraft loco coming then ALWAYS perform the following test:
Steam loco on track. Put in forward gear and run forward to clear condensate. Do the same in reverse. When condensate clear put loco into neutral and open the regulator. if steam shooots up the chimney then do not accept the loco. You can return and replace. If you already have the loco but it is still within guarantee then get onto Accucraft UK and they will replace the steam chest fitting complete with valves. This is one fabrication that replaces all three chests/valves ? and is easy to do (see my last post about tightening up steam chests to avoid weep. I have to say that all the later models I have tried seem steam tight and absolutely fine. Unfortunately lack of knowledge coupled with the poorer quality control of earlier locos has meant that there are a few rogues out there ? usually sold on.... Easily fixed though.
 
Try a bit of fusewire in the hole in the lubricator crosstube. This will cut down the oil. I have a lubricator regulator on my coal fired edrig ? and there is no slop under the piston valve. There usually is on gas jobbies however.
 
Just a quick update to say I have been able to do a track test this afternoon, thanks to a change in our weather at last. it was alot better but will still require some tinkering to get a
forward bias. I have noticed that in order to negotiate my gradients I have to maintain the pressure of about 45-50 degrees. Any less and I have to wait for the steam to rise.
Will update again after a further tinker to a forward bias. With all this testing I am now running low on gas, so a new order required:thumbup:
 
From my experience the Accucraft locos run more evenly up and down gradients when the pressure is higher and the regulator is subsequently less open (for the same speed)
 
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