Putting Sound into a Aristocraft Class 66

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DRG11

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Hi All,

I recently asked about getting sounds for the Aristocraft Class 66, ive now got a "Locksound" V5 sound chip to put into the loco but alas on opening the loco up there are wires everywhere,

Has anybody put a chip into this loco as it looks like a minefield, its says there is a plug in connector to use vice a blanking plate so take it this is where the Massoth XXl is fitted at the moment, If I change these over I still need to get the sound working and this will be on the new chip so does anybody have any idea where these are wired to please

Any help is much appreciated, thankyou.
 
Some photos would help..

Does the loco already have a decoder fitted?
<edit> re-read, you have a XXL..

Do you know enough about the model to know if the original circuit boards and switches are still there?

If it already has a decoder fitted, then the original boards may well have been removed.

I would also suggest you visit George Schrayer's large scale pages, at girr.org as you will find information there.

PhilP
 
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You should be able to get the new decoder and loco running with just track and motor wires..

Start with those..

Then wire the speaker to the new decoder, and you should have sound. - Check speaker and ESU values match.

Getting directional lighting working can be a problem.
The Aristocraft lights are a mixture of LEDs and filament bulbs. They are also common negative (DCC lighting is common positive).
It is quite often easier to use a relay as a DPDT switch, and switch power to the original board for directional lights.

Wiring the lights for full DCC control, is not trivial.

PhilP
 
DRG11 said:
Hi All,

I recently asked about getting sounds for the Aristocraft Class 66, ive now got a "Locksound" V5 sound chip to put into the loco but alas on opening the loco up there are wires everywhere,

Has anybody put a chip into this loco as it looks like a minefield, its says there is a plug in connector to use vice a blanking plate so take it this is where the Massoth XXl is fitted at the moment, If I change these over I still need to get the sound working and this will be on the new chip so does anybody have any idea where these are wired to please

Any help is much appreciated, thankyou.
Click to expand...

I believe the "plug in connector" and "blanking plate" mentioned might be similar to the Bachmann PnP interface PCB. While the two organisations settled on a common design there are some differences, I seem to remember mention of polarity. They were trying to set a common interface standard from about 15 years ago.

I have locos that have had the ESU Locksound V5 fitted to the Bachmann version, although in a battery/rc environment. This might help, assuming your Class 66 has this type of interface fitted, as I could provide pictures of an installation I am working on right now. Could you post a clear picture of the loco's innards, so I and others that might be able to help can see what you are dealing with here ? Hopefully the previous owner hasn't chopped out anything that could simplify matters.

George Schreaer's ever useful tips page do not seem to have anything on the Class 66, but they are quite old now. It would e intetesting if Bachmann, now re-releasing some Aristocraft products could help with manuals. Max
 
I can't help with regard to installing sound, but attached are my notes from installing DCC in my 66 back around 2008. These notes were recovered a long time ago from posts on G Scale Mad (a precursor to this forum).
There are some "oddities" around the way the lighting is handled using a PIC microcontroller on the main board, so I ended up bypassing that and creating my own lighting wiring from the decoder's auxiliary function connector. I turned the LEDs on the end PCBs to make them common positive to suit DCC functions.
 

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Yeah, that is an old Aristo design with the Aristo socket.

They used a PIC microcontroller as a voltage regulator, and it goes nuts on DCC (flickers).

I would do what Nick did, bypass that wiring and go to the decoder.

In this case, the socket buys you very little, and it might be less work to NOT use the socket, but use the motor and track pickup pins in the socket, and then rewire the lights directly to the decoder.

My first experience with this was an Aristo RS-3, and the flickering lights look bad.

Greg
 
Hello ,

Thankyou for the replies, I should have put some pictures of the inside up for you all to see what's there, these are attached.

I did think of taking it all out and just wiring in the Loksound V5 decoder with the lights and sound straight thru it, do you know if this would be easier to do please,

Many thanks to all.

PS .. should have said the XXL decoder is shown hanging bottom down to the right, this was inside a piece of cardboard for isolation and left on the metal plate at the bottom.
 

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You lucky person..
The XXL just has power and motor.

If you move those wires to the new decoder, and connect the speaker, it will work as it does now.

Please take on board what has been said about the lighting..
If you are not confident, it will be better to live with what you have.

PhilP.
 
DRG11 said:
Hello ,

Thankyou for the replies, I should have put some pictures of the inside up for you all to see what's there, these are attached.

I did think of taking it all out and just wiring in the Loksound V5 decoder with the lights and sound straight thru it, do you know if this would be easier to do please,

Many thanks to all.

PS .. should have said the XXL decoder is shown hanging bottom down to the right, this was inside a piece of cardboard for isolation and left on the metal plate at the bottom.
Click to expand...

Interesting. That looks similar the PnP PCB design that is in Bachmann products that I mentioned but with only one row of sockets, on the right in your pictures. The left side row, hidden mostly under wires, is redundant here. I don't know how this would have looked ex-factory. Bachmann would have had a "dummy" board attaching to both rows of sockets and supplied with an adapter board for DCC. Pictures below shows the Bachmann PnP without the dummy board and an ESU card integrated with the Bachmann PnP using their adapter. I am sure Greg can put you straight on this one. Max

That's the similar Bachmann PnP board without the dummy board in place.
20230404_094637.jpg

Here is the same with Bachmann's own DCC adapter with an ESU card plumbed in to it.
20230404_094919.jpg
 
So, it appears that the stock "shorting plug" has been modified to not short the track pickups to the motors directly. That is what I suggested, use the socket for the motor and track pickup leads only.

But the lights will still flicker, and I would update to LEDs and wire directly to the new decoder.

Greg
 
Excellent, thankyou to all of you for your help with this.

I will just change the decoders over and wire the speaker to it, will see how i get on with the lights after this,

Thankyou again .
 
Hello All,

Thankyou for all your previous replies and help, ive now put the V5 decoder in place of the XXL but it doesn't want to go for some unknown reason,

When power is applied the loco jerks several times and then moves very slowly, its the same in both directions, anybody got any ideas please.

I haven't tested the sound yet as wanted to make sure the loco was ok,

Many Thanks.
 
Hi, There is no dc power to the tracks anywhere as only testing on a short piece of track.

Ive changed the decoders back and the loco works fine so know im thinking a faulty decoder or even going down the roads of starting from scratch and wiring directly to the decoder. I'm not really much good with eclectics but am om in wiring up a decoder ,

Anything else you may want to know please ask, many thanks
 
Hi, Does anybody know which colour wires are from the track on the Aristocraft class 66 bogie please as there are 2 black , 1 red & 1 blue, thankyou.
 
DRG11 said:
Hi, Does anybody know which colour wires are from the track on the Aristocraft class 66 bogie please as there are 2 black , 1 red & 1 blue, thankyou.
Click to expand...
Do you not have a meter?

If not, a battery on the wires will make the motor run when you have the correct pair..

You may also find that one bogie is a mirror image of the other.

PhilP
 
Hi, Thankyou for the reply Philip, ive found out that its the 2 black wires are from the track and the Red and Blue go to the motor.

Ive wired the chip directly to the motor so nothing in between them and the it still jumps, also checked this with a 2nd chip and its the same but when the XXL is used it works perfectly, so know im at a loss as to why this is happening.

Any ideas please ?, many thanks.

Ps .. As you say Philip the bogies do mirror each other, cheers.
 
Hi Greg,

Its a Loksound ESU 58513 with screw terminals, Ive tried a different decoder with the same number but it does the same so assuming something is wrong between the chip and central station ?,

Im using the Massoth 1200z central station + navigator if this helps,

Many thanks for your help.
 
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