Sabre Steam

Status
Not open for further replies.
At this point, I'd like to advise contributors that the Mods are aware of this thread and watching its content closely. We are grateful to have contributions from some very well-known "names" in the relevant fields and respect their input on the basis of their own professional reputations and experience.

The Mods would also like to remind all contributors that factual statements of events or items - especially those supported by pictures - are OK. However, statements which make claims about any individuals' or firms' motives, ethics or possible future behaviour are not.
 
My thoughts are;
I when I retire in a few years I was hoping to buy a coal fired loco out of my pension lump sum. I will not be buying one from Sabre Steam now.
My thoughts are with Peter, I can imagine how much I would have looked forward to the arrival of his loco, which has looked gorgeous in many of the pictures of examples of the class.
I can also imagine the horror, anger and disappointment he must have felt on inspecting his purchase.
To alot of us our railways are a means of escaping from the stress of life, if only for a short while, Peter has lost that too.
 
whatlep,
Thank you for your moderation work, I apologise for the direct nature of my post last night, I overstepped your guidelines..

Gordon
 
Surely this is a case for the small claims court rather than buckle under and get it rebuilt by a third party, at what cost. I must admit I was about to place an order, but am now thinking twice.
 
burrellbrewer said:
Surely this is a case for the small claims court rather than buckle under and get it rebuilt by a third party, at what cost. I must admit I was about to place an order, but am now thinking twice.
Click to expand...
Now I am speaking generally here ? and if your leather coat is damaged at the dry cleaners then the small claims court is very good. If however, one is looking at a complicated and expensive 'one off' item then we have an entirely different set of circumstances. It may be that the provider of the unnamed item has offered to put things right but that the customer has qualms about the providers ability to do. Also what happens if the goods are not returned ? perhaps because the supplier goes under. One is then almost certainly some way down the list when it comes to getting any money back at all.

I think that Peter Hillman (and others ? one a barrister!) have proceeded with the safest course of action to protect as much of their hobby money as possible. Life ain't fair ? and I am sad for all who are in this position. I am also sad about the circumstances of the supplier in this case ? but, in the last analysis, the customers receiving models built in recent months have paid their money and have to right to expect a properly made product.
 
Dannysfod said:
... I'm sure there are many happy sabre customers who would swear by their engines and have experienced no issues ...
Click to expand...
We can only hope that that is indeed the case, and I for one would be extremely interested to read other's experiences and thoughts, and particularly from the owners of Sabre locos numbered from 030 upwards.
Dannysfod said:
I hope these experiences hasn't put people off coal running as it is a brilliant aspect of the hobby...
Click to expand...
Absolutely right!
 
Dannysfod said:
I am disappointed that people are experiencing difficulty regardless of blame on the company or postal service. Whoever is to blame, these models aren't cheap or simple and if I bought a car (using Tags infamous comparison to these models) i would expect to be able to drive it off the forecourt and for many many miles without difficulty or bother.

Daniel
Click to expand...

Not my comparison Daniel ? infamous or not this was Mr Coopers ? not mine.
 
I like to think of it as learning to ride a bicycle. It's a question of getting the balance right. No amount of reading a booklet on how to ride a bicycle will actually teach you how to. Similarly with a coal fired loco. You can read the theory but until you've had your hands on one you can't appreciate what it's like in practice. The allegory continues. Imagine how difficult it would be to try learning to ride a bike with a bent frame. Not entirely impossible, but very difficult and perhaps sufficient to put you off riding a bike forever, especially if you kept falling off!
Steve
 
ROSS said:
We are wandering a bit here chaps!!
I think the subject was engine no 30 onwards as being the problem. Seems those done by the original SABRE owner ( now deceased) were excellent from all accounts..so obviously those that had them are quite happy..
Click to expand...
Certainly they were of merchantable quality. Otherwise it is difficult to tell when many of the drivers of these little beasts do not have a deep knowledge of the subject. One wonders for instance, whether the blower valve fitting as described above by Tony W were standard on the earlier engines ? and I would be rather uncomfortable about that. Should be easy to check ? and if on the earlier engines the valve is screwed into a banjo then that gives rise to concern whether the locomotive is working well or not.
 
ROSS said:
We are wandering a bit here chaps!!
I think the subject was engine no 30 onwards as being the problem. Seems those done by the original SABRE owner ( now deceased) were excellent from all accounts..so obviously those that had them are quite happy..
Click to expand...
I wouldn't describe my Annette no. 7 as "excellent", Ross. I'd use the word "good". There were a couple of little problems initially which I discussed with Dave Cooper, and which I put right and put down to teething problems because mine was an early loco. They also helped me learn more about the loco and coal firing in general. Dave was always incredibly helpful and returned phone calls promptly if he wasn't there to pick up the phone (but usually he was). There were a couple of further problems which were more down to the design and which I've discussed at length with other Annette owners by e-mail. The one problem I can't solve is getting much sense out of the water gauge. As I've said previously, running my Annette is always a challenge - enjoyable, but always a challenge. Running my other coal fired loco is always a delight.
Steve
 
We are talking about a hand made engine here.It doesn't matter if it's coal,gas or meths fired,the fact is this is a £2.500 loco that appeared to be poorly put together and poorly painted. Hence would not appear to be anything to do with the post or anything else, but incompetence by the supplier. There is no excuse!


Edited by 3Valve - Reason - potentially inflamatory.
 
I would like to thank everybody who has contributed to this thread with
suggestions on the way forward.

First of all I doubt very much that I would be reimbursed by Sabre. This has
already been made clear. Given the horrendous condition of the locomotive as
received and as shown in my photographs, the pictures of others that I have
seen and the confrontational and defensive attitude of Mr Cooper when
contacted for logistical support, I do not believe that Sabre are capable of
acting in a businesslike way or rebuilding this locomotive to an acceptable
standard.

Unfortunately a judgement in the courts is only as good as the liquidity of
the person against whom the judgement is obtained and I have therefore
decided to limit my financial loss by having the locomotive properly rebuilt
by a competent engineer. This engineer has reported that the boiler is well
built for Sabre by a competent boilermaker and complies with current EEC
legislation. The running gear, chassis etc are of course Roundhouse ­ and so
this way of proceeding will ensure that I get a sound locomotive ­ albeit
costing more than I had allowed for (as per Gordon Watson's post).

Trading Standards is another way forward. This I understand is being
addressed by another owner in the same position as myself and this may, in
the future, help those who have paid by credit card and received a similar
product.

Peter Hillman

PS. There are several people on this group and its new coal-fired
sub-section with significant experience and knowledge and who are able to
advise on the purchase of a suitable and reliable coal-fired locomotive.
Please listen to them ­ people are looking out for you.
 
In view of the finality of Ghosty's last posting, I'm locking this thread.

Should anyone have further information on developments which merits further posts on the topic of Sabre Steam's Annette locomotives, please make contact with one of the Moderating team. That of course includes Mr Cooper who may wish to make his own comments in response to some of the statements made.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top