Single track with passing loop
- Thread starter Phil_Vincent
- Start date
AlanL
Registered
My layout used to have a single line, reverse loop to reverse loop. DCC using reverse loop modules.
I used the LGB manual point control for the R3 points with the trains pushing open the trailing point when exiting the loops.
One of the reversing loops was very visible/watchable and watching the trains always go the same direction was repetitive. To add some variation and anticipation as to which direction the train will take, I decided to try removing the LGB manual point control. It did seem risky having point blades flopping around freely without any control, especially as a facing point. My fears were unfounded because I never had a problem with the uncontrolled point. Perhaps the chunky G scale wheels are our friend here.
The other point that had to have the LGB manual control would occasionally derail a wagon but only when the point needed cleaning.
Sometimes a certain wagon would derail at the sprung point and the cause was a short back to back wheel dimension. The dimension is nominally 40 mm but I've had wheel sets that are closer to 39 mm. I think that the logic of this is that a wheel set of narrow dimensions, when starting to push open the moving point blade will be closer to the sliding support surface of the point blade at the same time as adding weight to the sliding surface increasing the friction and inability to push open the blade.
If you are not concerned about which direction around the loops your trains travel then I can recommend unsprung/uncontrolled points as the simplest and easiest method while adding a little surprise and variety to your running.
Alan
I used the LGB manual point control for the R3 points with the trains pushing open the trailing point when exiting the loops.
One of the reversing loops was very visible/watchable and watching the trains always go the same direction was repetitive. To add some variation and anticipation as to which direction the train will take, I decided to try removing the LGB manual point control. It did seem risky having point blades flopping around freely without any control, especially as a facing point. My fears were unfounded because I never had a problem with the uncontrolled point. Perhaps the chunky G scale wheels are our friend here.
The other point that had to have the LGB manual control would occasionally derail a wagon but only when the point needed cleaning.
Sometimes a certain wagon would derail at the sprung point and the cause was a short back to back wheel dimension. The dimension is nominally 40 mm but I've had wheel sets that are closer to 39 mm. I think that the logic of this is that a wheel set of narrow dimensions, when starting to push open the moving point blade will be closer to the sliding support surface of the point blade at the same time as adding weight to the sliding surface increasing the friction and inability to push open the blade.
If you are not concerned about which direction around the loops your trains travel then I can recommend unsprung/uncontrolled points as the simplest and easiest method while adding a little surprise and variety to your running.
Alan
Greg Elmassian
Guest
GAP, not trying to stretch this out, just understanding how your switch works with no spring.
If you have no return spring, what happens if you position the points/throwbar mid position? surely a train entering (from the points side) would derail.
I gather your situation is reliable, so with no springs, the train exiting ALWAYS aligns the points all the way to one side or the other?
Greg
If you have no return spring, what happens if you position the points/throwbar mid position? surely a train entering (from the points side) would derail.
I gather your situation is reliable, so with no springs, the train exiting ALWAYS aligns the points all the way to one side or the other?
Greg
GAP
G Scale Model Trains, 1:1 Sugar Cane Trains
A quick look before running a train is all I need to see if the points are set right.
Yes the exiting train aligns the points.
Like AlanL previously, my first line was a single with a loop at each end and trains running one way around the loops was boring.
The Y point will now be at one end of a single line with a loop and a shunting yard at the other.
See track plans Feb 2021 its at the "farms" loop
Track Plans
This page shows the track plans of the railway as it has evolved over the period from August 2019 to the present day. July 2020 December 202...
ringbalin-light-railway.blogspot.com
Phil_Vincent
Registered
Thanks for all your answers, I have no care which way around the train goes each time, so I think unpowered unsprung would be easiest.
Is there such a thing as a Y set of points? Particularly one that would fit into an already existing Piko R3 radius corner?
Is there such a thing as a Y set of points? Particularly one that would fit into an already existing Piko R3 radius corner?
Greg Elmassian
Guest
There's a 3 way switch by LGB, but it's got R1 legs I believe, not recommended... stay with your R3's
Aristo made a "#6" wye switch, the frog number is really a #3, which pretty darn close to the 3.5 frog number of an LGB R3 switch. They may be a bit hard to find where you are.
Greg
Aristo made a "#6" wye switch, the frog number is really a #3, which pretty darn close to the 3.5 frog number of an LGB R3 switch. They may be a bit hard to find where you are.
Greg
Phil_Vincent
Registered
I actually miss spoke. I have r1 curves (the tightest). Looks like I'll have to get three more sets of points to make this work as I want to
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Why not use the LGB 3 way then?
Phil_Vincent
Registered
That's a really risky Google search...
I need to draw out what I want to achieve trackwise and then post it to gather all your wisdom.
I need to draw out what I want to achieve trackwise and then post it to gather all your wisdom.
Greg Elmassian
Guest
There were 2 versions as I remember, one with both r1, and one with one r1 and an r2...
voodoopenguin
Retired
Which ever way you go, I would test it using you least favourite (if you have some) stock. The last thing you want is to damage things if it goes wrong
playmofire
Registered
I use LGB three-way points and have had no problems with them with my Playmobil locos (0-4-0s and a 2-4-0) and my LGB Spremberger 0-4-0. Rolling stock is Playmobil (they have a metal weight underneath) and LGB Toy Train. I cannot recall problems with either type. Two three-ways make a nice compact double passing loop with the running line down the middle. You can use loops with suitable isolation arrangements to store one train while another is running, and then store the running one on the empty loop and run the other train. Alternatively, you can store rolling stock on one loop while running a train and then park the stock off the train on the empty loop and pick up the stock from the other loop with the loco.
Gizzy
A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
AlanL
Registered
The thought of running over an unsprung/uncontrolled point may be scary and daunting. I was very wary when I first tried it under power. After the first few passes and seeing that the blades were holding against the stock rail, I relaxed and enjoyed the variation of route.
My unsprung point operated faultlessly for many years with occasional cleaning/lubrication. It was more reliable than the sprung point at the other loop (maintenance wise).
I still run with 4 unsprung points on my railway although except for one they are all trailing points. The exception is the point for the train storage that is normally a trailing point until I return a train to the storage tracks. It is then a facing point and although the trains are running slowly it does not cause any problems. One day I will fit a decoder and point motor but in the meantime I have to use my fingers to select the direction when backing trains into storage.
Before trying an unsprung point on the layout, I set-up a point and track on the workbench to test the idea. It seemed to work okay but a bench test may not have been the same as a long train.
Not sure that R1 Y points are readily available but standard R1 points must be easy to obtain as people trade up to larger radius points.
If you are unsure that it will work on R1 points, test it first on the bench. I'm pretty sure that your battery locos and train will move the point blades fully across and they will stay there ready for the train to return.
Alan
My unsprung point operated faultlessly for many years with occasional cleaning/lubrication. It was more reliable than the sprung point at the other loop (maintenance wise).
I still run with 4 unsprung points on my railway although except for one they are all trailing points. The exception is the point for the train storage that is normally a trailing point until I return a train to the storage tracks. It is then a facing point and although the trains are running slowly it does not cause any problems. One day I will fit a decoder and point motor but in the meantime I have to use my fingers to select the direction when backing trains into storage.
Before trying an unsprung point on the layout, I set-up a point and track on the workbench to test the idea. It seemed to work okay but a bench test may not have been the same as a long train.
Not sure that R1 Y points are readily available but standard R1 points must be easy to obtain as people trade up to larger radius points.
If you are unsure that it will work on R1 points, test it first on the bench. I'm pretty sure that your battery locos and train will move the point blades fully across and they will stay there ready for the train to return.
Alan
Greg Elmassian
Guest
A lot of locos will not go through the LGB 3 way, my first introduction to one was trying to get a Bachmann 2 truck shay through one. Not a pretty sight.
So, please while very small locos will work, it is NOT a nice, gentle, anything works on it switch.
A little research will show up the 2 versions of this switch, but one is long out of production.
Greg
So, please while very small locos will work, it is NOT a nice, gentle, anything works on it switch.
A little research will show up the 2 versions of this switch, but one is long out of production.
Greg
GAP
G Scale Model Trains, 1:1 Sugar Cane Trains
I found that it was not the 3 way that was a problem but the R1 curve when I tried a Bachmann Connie and a 3 truck shay through some R1 points.
All my small wheelbase locos, which the majority are, run through both just fine.
I just redesigned my track work to avoid the R1's with the larger locos.
All my small wheelbase locos, which the majority are, run through both just fine.
I just redesigned my track work to avoid the R1's with the larger locos.
Gizzy
A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
I have both the R1 versions as well asthe earlier LGB production R3 3YP on my railway, as can be seen here....
Greg Elmassian
Guest
It gets even muddier, I see people advertising a LGB 3 way that BOTH diverging routes are R2, and another guy saying they are BOTH R3
Then this thread: LGB three way point: Only R1?
says:
12350 LGB switch Length: 440 mm Radius: 950 mm Winkel: 22.5 Dreiwegweiche 22.5 - old Version with R2/R3
the posting metioned that this switch was originally manufactured by company AZB in Strengelbach (CH) for LGB
12360 LGB switch Length: 375 mm Radius: 600 mm Winkel: 30 ElektroDreiwegweiche - newer Version with R1 only
And then Jon D has a picture of the catalog for the 1235 / 12350:
I cannot find any real authority that has any version that BOTH diverging are BOTH R2 or are BOTH R3.... but who knows...
In any case the original suggestion was from a request to have a WYE switch, and if you ignore the center track, that's kind of what you have.
Greg
Then this thread: LGB three way point: Only R1?
says:
12350 LGB switch Length: 440 mm Radius: 950 mm Winkel: 22.5 Dreiwegweiche 22.5 - old Version with R2/R3
the posting metioned that this switch was originally manufactured by company AZB in Strengelbach (CH) for LGB
12360 LGB switch Length: 375 mm Radius: 600 mm Winkel: 30 ElektroDreiwegweiche - newer Version with R1 only
And then Jon D has a picture of the catalog for the 1235 / 12350:
I cannot find any real authority that has any version that BOTH diverging are BOTH R2 or are BOTH R3.... but who knows...
In any case the original suggestion was from a request to have a WYE switch, and if you ignore the center track, that's kind of what you have.
Greg