Sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet now in place

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I have just got two LGB sound boards complete with back up caps from a spares supplier on german ebay. I intend to use them in other locos but need to know the wiring as the boards did not come with leads etc.
The two boards are from a Uintah and a Sumpter mallet.
The diagrams at Champex unfortunately do not show which connections are for the power, speaker and if there is a chuff sensor.

Are there any lads out there with the knowledge about the connections/
Help would be very much appreciated.

Here are photos of the cards

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Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

The short answer Mike is that I don't know.

I'd be tempted to send off an email to the supplier and/or Massoth, who probably made it, to see what they say.

Alternatively find someone with a Uintah or Sumpter mallet who will take them apart and have a look.

My educated guess is that the speaker connects to the two pins behind the volume control, the two red wires with a connector go to the LGB main board and would thus be the power in (?LGB sound bus). The chuff sensor would go to some combination of pins on the two black upright connectors on the board.

I just had a look at the Uintah service diagrams and they would seem to confirm my guess, they show four wires as the chuff sensor black/brown/black on one of the connectors and a single black wire on the other. I don't think I've ever seen an LGB chuff sensor with four wires so I'm a bit confused about that (but maybe I'm just loosing my marbles!!).
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Cliff,
Like you, I checked the service diagrams but could only see the pre-DCC board for the Uintah. Since it has four DIP switches then I assume the board is an integrated board (i.e., not a separate sound board?) with front/rear power cables to the two forward black receptacles and as you say, speaker cables to the two pins forward of the volume control.

Also, I have only seen chuff synch cables with three wires (not four).

The rear drive block has wires for both chuff synch and reed switch control for bell and whistle. I cannot see where these connect on the DCC board, but receptacles were obvious on the pre-DIP switch board on the service diagram.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Thanks go to you lads for the help so far
I assumed that the board is a separate sound board and could just be linked up in some way to make it work with another loco (in the tender). It was described as the soundboard for the mallet so presumably, although it may have other functions on it, it also does have all the necessary gubbins for the making of sounds.
I first looked at the service diagram for the uintah before coming to the forum but I was not totally sure which lead was for what and did not want to have an expensive accident!
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

I reckon the red lead goes to the main loco board....

(Edited following further research)
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

In my opinion the 20882 Uintah diagrams are the ones required, because 20882 is written on Mikes board.

The caps are already attached to the board, its probably the big black long round thing under the board.

As I said before the diagram shows the red cables going to the main board and where the speaker connects. The cables going to the two black upright connectors seem to connect to the chuff sensor. You can see the sensor in the bottom right hand corner on the rear block diagram. My only issue is that I don't understand why there are four wires which appear to come from the chuf sensor. Like Tim I've only ever seen LGB sensors with three wires.

I didn't believe initially that this was an integrated board, and I still have my doubts, but Tim brings up a good point, what are the dip switches for otherwise?
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Email Massoth, they produced both boards.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Cliff George said:
In my opinion the 20882 Uintah diagrams are the ones required, because 20882 is written on Mikes board.

The caps are already attached to the board, its probably the big black long round thing under the board.

As I said before the diagram shows the red cables going to the main board and where the speaker connects. The cables going to the two black upright connectors seem to connect to the chuff sensor. You can see the sensor in the bottom right hand corner on the rear block diagram. My only issue is that I don't understand why there are four wires which appear to come from the chuf sensor. Like Tim I've only ever seen LGB sensors with three wires.

I didn't believe initially that this was an integrated board, and I still have my doubts, but Tim brings up a good point, what are the dip switches for otherwise?
Click to expand...

Cliff, I agree with Tim that the pcb Mike has brought is an integrated sound pcb, probably stripped from another loco, and unlike an 'add-on' like the LGB6600X sound units.

Looking at the diagrams in my linky for the Sumpter though, you can see that the chuff sensor cables are 3 wire; one is black/brown/black and the other black/black/black. The linky for the Sumpter is more detailed than the Unitah, but essentially, they are the same....
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

I think now think it is a sound only board.

the dip switches on the board do the following 1 conventional/DCC, 2 brake on/off, 2 coal shoveling on/off, 4 starting sound on/off.

The instructions say that you can trigger sounds by magnets on the track. Id refine my guess and say that one of the black upright three pin connectors is for the chuff sensor (the one that has three wires attached to it) and the other is attached to the magnet sound triggering device. However I can't see such a device anywhere on the rear motor block diagram and such a device would require two wires not one.
Maybe the board does have a DCC decoder on it as well (accounting for the value of dip switch 1), but I think the board has to be used in addition to another decoder on the main board, otherwise where do the lights/smoke etc connect onto the board? Imagine it as a sort of Massoth S type arrangement.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

LGB circuit boards normally have an abreviation (in German) prented onto the circuit board next to connections to tell you what they are for.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Many many thanks for the time and effort put into this little cunundrum lads, much appreciated Cliff, Tim and Gizzy.
I have emailed to Massoth to see if they can shed any light on the connections, power needs, chuff sensors that can be used etc..Thanks for the suggestion Muns.
Steve, I have taken a close look at the labels which are not always next to the connection that they are labelling!
There is the speaker symbol on the two pronged connection that had already been earmarked for that purpose.
Also there is a label 'taktgeber' meaning 'clock generation' on one of the three pronged sockets which I take to mean chuff..?
Could this be used with an ordinary reed switch? If so which prong goes to which connection....?

The other three pronged socket has 'pfeife/glocke' which is for 'bell/whistle' so that looks self explanatory except, again, how to wire the sensor up.

The red cable on the 20882 board is probably for the power but must make sure of that!
Any idea of the power output level from the main control board of the locos? If it is more or less just track power then that would be simply superb but if it is stepped down by the control board...mmmmmmmmmmm:rolleyes:
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

sound triggering device is item 115 page 6 @ 20892 and item 143 page 7 @ 20882

red cable is the power and the same two conections on the grey ribbon on the other card is also the power.

black connector that has the words "Pfeife/Glocke" (noun for whistle/bell in german) is for the sound trigger other black connect is for wheel sensor

2 pins are for the specker
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Hi Andrew
Thanks for confirming my dodgy translations of the sensor, speaker and power connectors..:bigsmile:
I will be using non-LGB chuff and bell/whistle sensors so I was asking how these would be set up and wired. Also what is the power situation for the sound board...pure track voltage or stepped down by the main control board?
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Not sure about the three wire chuff? but the bell end whistle will have a common to both reed switches and a signal wire from each reed to trigger. Thinking a bit the chuff generater could be the same thing ie. Two chuffs per revolution? needing two reeds 180deg. apart?
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

minimans said:
Not sure about the three wire chuff? but the bell end whistle will have a common to both reed switches and a signal wire from each reed to trigger. Thinking a bit the chuff generater could be the same thing ie. Two chuffs per revolution? needing two reeds 180deg. apart?
Click to expand...
The common wire on the bell and whistle is the middle of the three. The worst that can happen if you transpose the other two is that the whistle will sound when the bell should and vice versa.
The chuff sensor needs three wires, for the positive supply voltage, negative supply voltage and trigger. Hopefully someone will post which is which, I haven't had cause to dismantle one and I'm loath to take my only factory sound fitted loco apart to find out.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Thanks for your bit of wisdom Neil.
Gradually the mystery of the boards is being opened up.
I am now only left with the chuff sensor wiring to finally work out and what power the whole board will work at.
I am beginning to suspect that it may be like the 6500X modules and be able to work at track voltage (with either a chuff sensor or not). It will charge the caps at whatever they need (there are 5 x 2.3V 10F gold caps) and work from them when at rest. Of course the 6500X modules are DCC as well but they work fine on analogue as well so I suspect that they maybe similar in behaviour to the sound boards that I have got hold of.
When I finally get all of the mystery sorted then I will give you any info for your files!
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Mike - if I recall correctly, the LGB sound systems are set up so that on analogue layouts you can trigger either the bell or whistle depending on which side of the track you put the triggering magnet - that would suggest that there are two separate reed switches or sensors, each offset to one side or the other, and if there is a three-wire cable then it's probably one to each, plus a common return.
Logic would suggest the middle one in the ribbon cable is the common, but of course that COULD be wrong....

Jon.

Edit: that's what happens if I don't read all the latest posts before replying to an earlier one - I see that Neil has said pretty much the same thing already....
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Zerogee said:
Edit: that's what happens if I don't read all the latest posts before replying to an earlier one - I see that Neil has said pretty much the same thing already....
Click to expand...
You're a man behind his time Jon :rolf:
 
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