Sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet now in place

Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Mike,
I feel that to get any chuff sound you will definately need the chuff sensor figured out. Otherwise the board will only give startup sounds and bell/whistle if triggered by a magnet.

I would be wary feeding any power greater than 5 volts into the board. The mid-1990's digital boards used power from the main circuit board that was regulated power. Most LGB factory install sound boards relied on a chuff sensor to trigger chuff, so I would not compare this board's operation to the #6500X series boards.
LGB did intend the #6500X series boards to have a chuff sensor input (#65010 from memory, but it never made it into production).

As regards bell/whistle, the centre pin is the common, with the outer pins triggering either bell or whistle. You would need two reed switches to accomplish or the excellent LGB #65012 Mogul function trigger. Be wary if you decide to go the route of the LGB switch as some come with very large plugs to fit your board and others come with tiny Massoth type plugs to fit the #6500X series boards.

If you were wiring the bell/wistle for DCC ops then the centre pin would be positive and the outer pins negative power to provide the earth 'function' return. On DC ops most likely the same.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Hi Tim
Thanks for the info. I have emailed massoth so hopefully they will be able to tell me the voltage that the board needs. If it is 5v then I will have a problem as I will be using the board in another make of loco. Will have to rig up a voltage regulator of some description between track power and the board...will need to ask the honorable gurus on the forum if that is the outcome.

If the board is only fed with 5v wouldn't the 5 x 2.3v 10F (11.5V) gold caps ( for 30 secs of standing sounds ) not be charged up enough?

The whistle and bell trigger is not worrying so much now (getting them the right way around is the only thing to investigate), but the way to rig up the reed switch and wheel magnet chuff system is still a we problem as the three wires are obviously polarity dependent.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Mike,
cannot help you on the capacitor situation. I know that it takes about 30 seconds or more to power up the capacitors at moderate speed , so this does imply that voltages greater than five volts may be present on the board. On the #6500X series units, I used four 'AA' cells to power standing sounds (4.8 volts) and low speed chuff, rather than the expensive #65011 capacitor pack. The capacitor pack was good for only one circuit of my railroad at prototypical low speed and the sound unit would cut out until power was increased. The batteries gave me unlimited low speed chuff.

The general lack of information is the reason that I have never purhased these LGB sound boards. Some years ago the LGB 'see-through' F7-A and B-units were being sold off for a pittance. The B-units were $134.95. Everyone was purchasing them hoping to use the sound units in iother locomotives. At the time this was far cheaper than sound offered by Soundtraxx or Phoenix. alas, the lack of available info meant that none to my knowledge were stripped and sound boards installed in non-factory installations.

If you do get all the info required to enable a successful install, then no doubt there will be a flood of purchases of these boards. Until then, it seems that you are the test lab guinea pig.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Tim Brien said:
Until then, it seems that you are the test lab guinea pig.
Click to expand...

Squeaky squeak
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Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Massoth have replied to my mail about this and:

1) The Sound trigger connector (top black 3 way connector), connect 2 reeds, one to each to outer pin and centre pin (GND).

2) The Chuff sensor connector (lower black 3 way connector). Top is +12v, Centre is CLK and lower is GND. A reed could be used instead, and I would suspect that it would need to be connected between CLK & GND (it that dont work try CLK & +12v).

3) The right most connection connects normally to the motor/lighting board. I believe that the lower two connectors should be track power.

[Usual Disclamer applies: use the above information at your own risk]
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Hi Muns
Thank you very lots for pursuing the line of investigation, 'tis mightily appreciated.
Peter at Massoth has also sent me the same info with the pcb diagram and wiring polarity.
I think that you are correct in the assumption that the red wire is the track power. I have asked Peter for confirmation of this, if he does have that info.
edit:
He has just replied in the affirmative....Fantastic! I have bought three of these boards at about an average of 35 euro each and they, although a bit large, will allow a cheap upgrade from the Bachmann Annie's basic sound if sited in the tender.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Update
With the kind input from members on this thread and also from Peter Ting at Massoth (who made the boards) I have managed:

Four boards (3 from 20882 Uintah mallets and 1 from a 20892 Sumpter) now being installed in Bachmann big hauler Annie tenders ...all work with track power, all work with reed switches for bell and whistle BUT I am getting an inconsistent chuff, no matter where I position the the reed switch relative to the wheel magnets that I have installed. Exactly the same happens when using the 'chuff' sensor of the Annie.

There are thee pins on the mallet board chuff connector +12V, GND and CLK. I have connected the chuff sensing reed switch to the GND and CLK pins (definitely not to the +12V!).I am actually not sure why there is a +12V pin anyway.
It seems the board chuff circuitry might be too sensitive or not sensitive enough and needs the operation of original LGB wheel cam hall field sensor or maybe I need to put a resistor in the reed switch connection...not sure...has anyone got an idea? I have tried 4 different reed switches (of the same kind that come with Phoenix sound cards) and different magnets in different positions and there still is an inconsistent chuff pattern, sometimes missing, sometimes doubling up. I tried the wheel magnets and reed switch when connected to a Phoenix card and they worked perfectly so they are not the reason for the inconsistent chuff.
And this is not the card trying to simulate the twin chuffing of the two power sections (I have the two LGB mallets complete with sound and know the sound that they actually make)

If anyone has got experience of reed switches having similar probs perhaps they also have an idea how they overcame it...... would be extremely glad of your input!
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

It is probably a "bounce" effect from the reed. A capacitor in parallel with the reed to dampen the bounce maybe?
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

Cheers Mark. What value cap would you recommend? And what exactly is the 'bounce' effect?
As the boards have three pin connectors for the chuff sensor and LGB used hall sensors would it be better for me to get hold of hall sensors (12V) jobs and use them with magnets?
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

I have obtained the hall sensors and set one up on a test bed tender bogie with a small rare earth magnet stuck upon the axle. It works much better than the reed switch did.....well yes...... and no. The single magnet gets one steadily repeating chuff per revolution..very good...
But one chuff per revolution is not very prototypical so I stuck another magnet at 180 degrees to the other magnet on the axle. This is much like the original configuration of the LGB axle

The hall sensor totally ignores the second magnet and still gives only one chuff per revolution.
I have reversed the magnets with every permutation possible for North or South polarity, replaced the magnets and replaced the hall sensor but it still only gives one chuff per revolution.

Is the board ignoring a second signal from the sensor? Is there an in built delay between sensor and board electronics so that two 'pulses' in quick succession are only treated as one?

I am not sure what is going on. The only thing that I can think of is that the miniature round rare earth magnets are too powerful and swamp the sensor not allowing it to 'reset' with no line of magnetic flux passing through it.

I have ordered a real LGB axle to delve into the magnet set up and also a LGB hall sensor cable and head to see how that is set up.

Any ideas would be good for the melting pot of wisdom.....
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

4 magnets as per lgbs system positioned at 45° to each other. but not super strong magnets like your rear earth ones, will give you the required sound of 2 chuffs per rotation.
 
Re:? Wiring for LGB sound boards from Uintah and Sumpter mallet ??

wandgrudd said:
4 magnets as per lgbs system positioned at 45° to each other. but not super strong magnets like your rear earth ones, will give you the required sound of 2 chuffs per rotation.
Click to expand...

Hi Andrew.
Between the last posting and reading your post, I tried the four magnets both on the axle and on a wheel back. But still no increase in chuffs above one per revolution, even with holding the sensor at a greater distance to weaken the effect of the magnets' flux.
as I said in t'other thread...'tis witchcraft...........
 
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