Stainz lighting

Right, that's it, I'm giving up. I did remove the screws you indicated Giz, I had thought they were only there to keep the skates in place, but obviously they do more than that. My work bench (untidy) as you can see is festooned with brackets screws and so on, and there is now a distinct possibility that the loco will not go together properly if I carry on like this. All I wanted to do was to get the front pilot light to work, if it won't work, too bad.
To summarise what I have achieved, or not achieved, the motor block remains firmly welded into place and will not move a fraction. The only part that does drop down is the cylinder block - I take that out and I am in real sierra hotel. The boiler and cab assembly can be prised upwards at the smokebox end, and also up a noticeable distance at the rear end, but using some sort of lever is required, and we are starting to damage the plastic bodywork. Somewhere in the middle, at the coal bunker section, movement of the body unit is being prevented. This last picture shows the limit to which I will apply brute force to try to dismantle the whole thing. I'm not chancing the application of any more force. It's as I said right at the beginning, with the Mini, first remove the engine. Thanks all of you for your help. I am now going to lie down and have a little cry, Cyril

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Sorry we couldn't help more, Cyril - I'm afraid I still can't see why the motor block won't drop out, especially now you've removed the front coupling!
By rights, the whole of the BLACK assembly (gearbox and front and rear coupling blocks) really should now slide downward out of the red frame/footplate. The only thing I can think is that maybe it's stuck in there by years of collected crud?

Any more ideas, chaps? Is there something we've all missed so far?

Jon.
 
http://www.lgbhobby.nl/OmbouwenStainz.pdf < Link To www.lgbhobby.nl/OmbouwenStainz.pdf

Have a look at this. It is in German but has many pictures and you may find it helpful. I copied the address from the google page. You may need to type the address in without the underlining. I have no idea why it has put that there.

Good luck Clive
 
Very useful link, Clive, but it refers to a modern D-gearbox Stainz, not the old clamshell-type that Cyril has - the procedure for dismantling the two types is quite different.

Jon.
 
Cyril, the trick is to first drop the black motor block complete with wheels, motion and cylinders down out of the red frames. You appear to be attempting to part the boiler and cab from the frames. From memory I think that there's at least one screw preventing you doing this that can't be got at until after the motor block is removed.
Again from memory the motor block is held in place at the front by the (already removed) front coupling, in the middle by two small black motion pieces, one ringed in yellow below, that release by just pushing sideways out of the way now that you've removed the small pieces covering the top of them and at the rear by a single screw on one side only through and at right angles to the frame roughly where the yellow arrow shows.
When the motor block is loose you may have to pull it down firmly to release the electrical plug, depending on the version of the loco.
Edit, I see some of the info has already been posted by Jon whilst I was preparing the photos. :thumbup:

For the record this link
http://lgb.vanelten.nl/Database/explosietekeningen/2020-1.pdf < Link To http://lgb.vanelten.nl/Da...etekeningen/2020-1.pdf
should show details of Cyril's version. The easily missed rear screw is one of those numbered 83, the one next to the one holding the RHS under cab step (part 49) in place.
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BINGO!!!!!!

[style="color: #000000;"]you didn't mention the hammer and chisel, did you. OK, it wasn't quite as drastic as that, but I noticed a slight movement of the wheels downwards when I gave them a gentlemanly tap, and slowly out came the block. Well, if that isn't a good excuse for a visit to the pub tonight then what is? G-scale perseverance wins through again, I knew you guys wouldn't give up on me. Now to get inside the cab to see if I can find a broken wire or similar, or maybe it could be the diode block. If the rear light works properly when engine reverses, but the front doesn't, that would suggest a diode may be u/s?

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Well done Cyril - perseverance plus a little "Impact Engineering" wins the days again! :thumbup:

Jon.
 
Righton chaps, now we may be getting somewhere. As one of you suggested, he thought once the boiler/cab unit is removed. there is one screw which holds the cab and boiler together. Underneath the cab floor is a pair of wires, one brown one black which obviously go through the diode block to the front and rear lights. let's have a look at the motor block. Yeah, there it is, a pair of contacts to the chassis. It's all beginning to fit into place. Let's run a test through the brown and black wires. One way, rear red light comes on. Reverse polarity, front pilot? Nothing. Surely now everything is pointing to the diode block. I can find no broken wires. Now I have to go through the posts of the last few days because one of you will be going to LGB for some spares, you are already going to order me a smokebox handle. Looks like a diode block might be added to this order, I'll let you know.
Pardon my elaborating at great length, but this whole post could be useful to other guys in the future. Basically you were all more or less pointing me in the right direction, I just wasn't confident enough to get on with the job. NE SCOTLAND loco fixers, Stainz our speciality

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Glengrant said:
Underneath the cab floor is a pair of wires, one brown one black which obviously go through the diode block to the front and rear lights. Let's run a test through the brown and black wires. One way, rear red light comes on. Reverse polarity, front pilot? Nothing. Surely now everything is pointing to the diode block.
Click to expand...
Great news Cyril, I admire your Percy Verance. :bigsmile:
Right; that diode block should have three wires, one to one of that pair of wires under the cab, one to the rear light and the third to the front light. Cut the wire to the front light as close as possible to the diode block, bare the cut end and twist the bare wire tightly round the diode block rear light connection. You're probably ahead of me now, if the front light is O.K. it will come on at the same time as the rear light, if it doesn't the diode block is probably O.K. with the problem lying elsewhere.


If it's the diode block there's no need to replace it with a similar one, leave it in with the front light wire disconnected and add a 1A diode, say a 1N4004 such as Maplins code QL76H, between the wire from under the cab and the one to the front light. Put this diode one way round it'll work as intended, the other way the front will light at the same time as the rear light. The "wrong" way round won't do any harm and there's a 50/50 chance of getting it right first time.
Note, the positions of the connections in the diagram may not match those of your diode block, please trace out the wires to check which are which.

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Righton, Neil (thinks, where have I heard that exclamation before?) now I see eggsackly what you are getting at. And I see what I have to do. I may even have such a diode to hand, as the actress said, oh never mind. I have decided that I will not tackle this task tonight, what does it say on the side of this glass, ah, Whyte & Mackay. I'll just sit back and contemplate. Hopefully there will be a final and successful update when this project is over. One thing, I can clean some of the dead leaves and other muck out of the cab.
 
......and as a finale, here it is, the workshop, all I have to do is stick it all together, not a problem (Ihope!). Thinks, what's a bleedin gandy dancer doing here, they should be down making illicit hooch at this time of night..........

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Small correction to the block photo with the contacts, I have it the wrong way round, but I note that a silimar pair of contacts are also fitted to the rear end of the loco on the correct place, wonder why they fitted two pairs of contacts, front pair don't seem to do anything. And guess what, I have just been into my diode/resistor box and found a pack of 1N4004 diodes, now where did they come from? You, Neil?
 
Well now, the plot is definitely thickening. The pics hopefully will show what is happening. Following on from Neil's excellent advice and diagram I identified the front pilot wire back to the diode block, that's it with a short bit of white attached, then I applied the current to that wire by-passing the diode block, light comes on. Let's just check the rear light but not by-passing the diode block. Works correctly. Now, I thinks, suppose I do not by-pass the diode with the front light. Works! See the last two pics, I assure you that the red light is on. So, now we have a conundrum. Seems that, if I have this worked out correctly, there is nothing wrong with the wiring at all. If I apply power to the wires both lights work correctly.
So now we have to go back to what is happening between the motor block and the loco body. Watch this space, having a break now

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.and finally just to make sure everything is ticketboo, I have applied power to the motor block via the two contacts which should meet up with the screws holding the black and brown wires on to the cab floor, wheels go round. So I think all I have to do is mate the top and bottom together again and make sure that all of these contacts do just that, contact!
 
The reason for the duplicated sets of contacts at both ends of the motor block is simply that LGB used a standard block for everything, and some other locos pick up from the front set (or from both) - so much simpler to include both sets in the standard block.
It's actually quite handy having those contacts when you come to DCC-chip an old clamshell motor block - you simply open it up and snip away the brass strips that normally press on the motor terminals, solder new green and yellow wires directly to the motor lugs, then pick up the track power (white and brown wires) by soldering to either set of the those contact pads. Simples!, as that bl**dy meerkat would say.... :thumbup:

Jon.
 
OK here was me thinking that it was all over - oh no, not by a long chalk. After a marathon wrestling match I finally got the cab and boiler unit together but before going any further decided to test it. BXGGER!!!!! Front pilot doesn't come on. So what's gone wrong. Tester on again, rear light OK. So what have I done? Broken a wire? Back to square 1, dismantle damned thing again. Certainly a pinched wire in that fankle, but although it's bare, it is not broken. Bypass diode block again and test. This time front light comes on one way, reverse both front and rear - both come on. Now this goes back to the original diagnosis by Neil. This means the diode is NOT functioning.
Right, here's what I'll do. I'll break the wire which has been nipped, I'm going to have to solder that up in any case, then put in one of the new diodes, and see if that works.
Works! BUT.and this is a big BUT, as I was fiddling about I noted front bulb flickering on and off. Let's just try this. Take off new diode, go back to using old one. It works. I am now strongly suspecting that there is a fault in the bulb holder, loose connection in there, and I don't think one can inside those things - would have to be a raplacment. Of course, now I can't get the thing to flicker at all, it stays resolutely on properly. All that work for probably just one small fault. Still, at least I know how to dismantle a Stainz. Not going to put the thing together tonight. I need some heat shrink anyway and that's all out in the garage and I'm not going out there again tonight. I get scared in the dark.
I hope I have come to the end of this protracted tale of woe. So do you guys also I expect
 
Well done for all your patience. After I had read you posts I finally got round to pulling my Stainz (20212) apart to fit the decoder I had purchased in the for sale section a while ago. I am pleased to say I did not have the polava (?) you have had to suffer. I am amazed at how different the two models are. Comparing yours with mine there have clearly been a huge number of changes over the years.
I regret there was one casualty today, Helmut has alas lost his footing, well actually both feet. I lifted his arm over the sill of the cab side to remove the cab and as everything was so accessable I thought I would remove him from his glue pad. I do not know what glue they use but I waggled him about hoping it would give but alas no and he snapped off at the ankles. I had intended to move him but now he is sitting in a jar of pencils just looking at me.
Has there been a Stainz thread where assorted members post pictures of the various Stainz they own - mine are all green and I would like a black one with a straight chimney.
Oh well I am pleased you have resolved your pilot light problem.
 
id check the bulb again to see if its still tight,
you assume the wire is buggered when it might not be at all,
ive pinched them too and never had the issue, fwiw
as you know, theres more than a flicker of hope here..........:)

be patient, ive done them many times and i always have to go back and re-do something most of the time
they are surprisingly complex little things that fit together rather precisely

id suggest this btw-if you ahve electircal cleaner/lube, id shoot the bulb holder and repeated screw it in and out to loosen any corrosion and clean threads etc-then mop it dry and give er a go
cheers
 
I have to be nearing the final conclusion of this epic. After last night's antics with the bulb I am certain that the fault is a broken wire, and it is inside the bulb holder where as you know the wire enters at a nasty tight right angle. I think the obvious thing to do is get a replacement bulb holder. As it is still working on this mornings test I will re-assemble it but leave a section of wire loose just inside the smokebox so that fitting a new one can be done without to much bother. I understand the part comes with a length of wire attached. Also after yesterday's reassembly fiddling, I have that broken wire to repair and will watch out for other "nipping" wire dangers, a lesson learned.
Well, I want to thank all of you for entering into this discussion, your diagrams and PM Neil especially worthwhile. As I reassemble the old girl I am giving her a bit of clean up so that when she finally gets out of the shops she will be put into the top link, I think.
Talk of Stainzes about does set me thinking. I only have three, plus an Otto, but I might browse around E-bay and so on for a fourth. Which of course I do not need, but even if I got one a bit worn, well, I know all about Stanzes now, don't I. Of course, I still have, in its box, an unused "U" which really should be introduced into the daylight. If I don't there is some question as to what might be removed in a box from this house 'ere long, the "U" or me!
On that happy note I'll hopefully close this, but I will post a pic when the loco goes back to traffic.
 
Cyril, if you haven't already ordered one from somewhere, drop me a PM about the replacement bulb holder - I think I have some brand new ones that I ordered from Modell-Land some time back, I'm sure I could spare one for you.

Jon.
 
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