Steam Newbie

B

bazzer42

oo 80's, WW1, Rupert Bear, beer
To whom it may concern - Help!

I feel like a pregnant mother expecting the safe arrival of a Lady Anne and/or a Katie by the end of the month.
Everyone advises the use of "filtered" rainwater as safe option. Stupid question one - is filtered through a paper coffee filter adequate or are we talking big jugs with a filter in the top?
Steam oil - stupid question two - can anyone recommend a good on-line purveyor for a roundhouse loco?
I have three cans of butane in the back passage - stupid question three - do I need an adaptor from Roundhouse or are there other suppliers, and not knowing what it might look like what am I asking for? Is it a standard adaptor in the steam world or a variant for each stable i.e. accucraft, roundhouse?
I wish I had found live steam earlier, and yes Chris, first mod is chuff pipes. I must have watched all the videos.
 
Hi
Yes, I use coffee filters for my locos. Works fine, just to take out the fine particles.
Steam oil, I use Brandbright but I don't have any Roundhouse locos (I know, shock horror). Mike at Chuffedtobits might be worth calling too.
Gas adaptors, it depends on the can rather than the loco. The main one has been standard for years but the new cheaper cans need a different one.
By the way, butane struggles with enough pressure at ambient temperatures of less than 10 degrees C. We all use butane propane mix in the cold. Don't used mixed gas above 10 degrees though.

Hope this helps :).
 
Don't be asking so many stupid questions!
There's only stupid one, and that's always the one you didn't ask.
We all start somewhere, usually at square one, so ask away.

Gas fillers on locos are mostly the same, so the same adapter suits both Roundhouse and Accucraft.
It also suits Maxwell Hemmens "Ogwen" and the PPS gas tank on my "Jane".
The traditional adapter (adaptor?) screws onto the canister, and is pretty standard.
More recently the "cheap" canisters for camping stoves and BBQ's have seen push-on adapters come onto the market.
A good one is available from Chuffed-2-bits, who also supply the traditional type.

Steam oil for a Roundhouse loco? Why not get it from Roundhouse?
There many suppliers - I've used Dream Steam and Maidstone Engineering to name just two.
It comes in several grades. I've always used the thicker type, but recent Roundhouse products prefer a thinner grade.

I'll leave the water thing alone. There have been a few long threads on this forum.
I don't like the idea of rainwater. Our local tap water is quite soft and has given me no trouble over about 15 years.
 
Welcome to live steam Derek. You'll have great fun and it's amazing how much you'll learn as you gain experience. As Rob says, the subject of water has been done almost to death. The consensus seems to be that water from a de-humidifier is best but whatever you use, so long as it doesn't have bits in it, you should be OK for a while. You can even use tap water but it's generally not recommended, especially if you live in a hard water area. Boilers can be washed out if necessary, but it's better if you don't have to.
Screw on gas adaptors are available from a number of sources. There's a good picture of what you need on the Track Shack web site, http://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Live_Steam_Locomotive_Workshop_Items.html < Link To http://www.track-shack.co...kshop_Items.html
There are two types of steam oil readily available, identified by their viscosity - 220 and 460. 460 is thicker and is more suitable for Accucraft locos. Roundhouse supplies and recommends 220 oil. John (of Track Shack) gives a good explanation on his web site - "The current oil supplied by Roundhouse was chosen after consultation with the oil's manufacturer and discussion as to its precise application and working environment.
To deliver the correct amount of this 220 weight oil, the feed hole in the lubricator of modern Roundhouse locos has been reduced in size as the now thinner oil picks up and flows far more freely.
Using thicker 460 oil in the current models should not be a problem as far as lubrication is concerned (slightly less getting to the cylinders), but may lead to long term carbonisation in the superheater."

You'll get some steam oil supplied with your loco. The only other thing you may need is a water top up bottle. Now there are plenty around but if you'll forgive a bit of shameless advertising, Jackson's Miniatures sells a 'Superior' top up water bottle. You can see the details at the bottom of this page www.jacksonsminiatures.com/bottomrailway.html If you get the chance to compare it with some of the others on the market you'll understand why it's called the 'Superior'.

Please let us know how you get on with your new loco. And if you have any problems or other questions you'll discover there are plenty of people here to offer help and advice.
Steve
 
Stainzmeister said:
MRail said:
I'll leave the water thing alone. There have been a few long threads on this forum.
I don't like the idea of rainwater. Our local tap water is quite soft and has given me no trouble over about 15 years.
Click to expand...
:rolf::rolf:
You said you would leave it alone Rob. :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, but then I didn't want to give the impression I'm afraid of water...
 
400Parker said:
To deliver the correct amount of this 220 weight oil, the feed hole in the lubricator of modern Roundhouse locos has been reduced in size as the now thinner oil picks up and flows far more freely.
Click to expand...
That's interesting... I've missed the bit about the reduced feed hole.
Explains a problem I had recently.
For some years I've been using thick oil, (680 I think), scrounged from the FR.
Having run out this summer, I moved to a bottle of the thinner 220 oil for my elderly Billy.
The loco immediately began "hiccupping", stalling and chuffing erratically.
Since the only variable was the oil, I opened the valve covers and added some 460 oil from yet another bottle.
After a couple of steamings the loco settled back to it's previous performance.
 
400Parker said:
There are two types of steam oil readily available, identified by their viscosity - 220 and 460. 460 is thicker and is more suitable for Accucraft locos. Roundhouse supplies and recommends 220 oil. John (of Track Shack) gives a good explanation on his web site - "The current oil supplied by Roundhouse was chosen after consultation with the oil's manufacturer and discussion as to its precise application and working environment.
To deliver the correct amount of this 220 weight oil, the feed hole in the lubricator of modern Roundhouse locos has been reduced in size as the now thinner oil picks up and flows far more freely.
Using thicker 460 oil in the current models should not be a problem as far as lubrication is concerned (slightly less getting to the cylinders), but may lead to long term carbonisation in the superheater."
Click to expand...
Wellcome Steam Newbie

Not wishing to cause conjecture here but I strongly suggest you go with manufacturer's reccomendation on steam oil for specific models. In ignorance I carried on using the thicker 460 steam oil I was supplied with for my Lady Ann, by a certain retailer 6 years ago, as I added to my roster of live steam loco's until a little problem with an Accucraft (US) 3 cylinder Shay. It required a thurough de-gunking and blow through on a high pressure line as a result. I have now been put straight by the good Mike Darby of Chuffed 2 Bits as to what to use in future, the lighter grade steam oil. At least fr that Accucraft loco.

You have not said if your expected loco is new or secondhand. If secondhand it might be an idea to get one of Roundhouses' little service kits and their rather usefull multi-tool, great for withdrawing and setting safety valves and withdrawing gas tank valves. If it is secondhand Roundhouse should be able to tell you its build spec' and what grade of steam oil will be applicable to it from its serial #. Usually under the cab footplate.

If you have not done it already join the 16mm Narrow Gauge Modeller's society. The best £17 you can spend in this hobby. Their local groups are a lifesaver for newbies such I was (still am really).

Max.
 
Hi Bazzer42
All good advice above! You would need to get a top-up valve to use one of Steve's excellent bottles though. I was using mine yesterday and it is nice to give only a third as many pumps! I know that Roy Wood used only filtered rain water - not sure which filter though - I will check.

I think you deserve a medal if you have watched all my videos:) If your locos are of recent manufacture, remember to check the number of exhausts before ordering a Chuffer as the new Katies and Lady Annes have the single exhaust.

Have fun!
Cheers
Chris
 
So long as you read the instructions carefully, and have watched the summerlands steam videos on YouTube about lighting a ragleth then you can't go far wrong.

But the most important thing is to enjoy yourself and take photos.

Dan
 
a98087 said:
So long as you read the instructions carefully, and have watched the summerlands steam videos on YouTube about lighting a ragleth then you can't go far wrong.

But the most important thing is to enjoy yourself and take photos.

Dan
Click to expand...
Or better still get someone else to take them! At least until you are confident you know what you are doing .
 
Thanks guys. I collected Katie this afternoon. She was built in 2009 but the owner has had it for only 12 months and steamed only 2 or 3 times. The general condition seems to back that up. He gave a quick run down of workings so feeling a bit more confident with running. I will speak to roundhouse to clarify the right oil viscosity.
I will try to get some photos on tomorrow, even static I'm like a kid at Christmas. Looks like I will have plenty of opportunity to filter rainwater this weekend!
 
Neil Robinson said:
bazzer42 said:
I will speak to roundhouse to clarify the right oil viscosity.
Click to expand...
Before you do so I suggest you visit their website, http://www.roundhouse-eng.com , click on Technical on the right hand side and then click on Steam Oil .
Click to expand...
Congratulation on your new Katie which will have twin exhausts (and I am sure you will have seen the fitting video!). As Neil says - it is all on their website - and that is that you should use their 220 grade (which is, in fact Morris Lubricants Compounded Bearing Oil 220). In the short term - use what steam oil you have got - it really will not make a difference for a few steamings.
Cheers
Chris
 
I still need a gas adapter and some 220 oil, when a seller gives you a small refilled bottle and says something about 20/50 you get nervous. Work gets hectic now with the budget so happy to pace myself but that also means 2 weeks holiday in March, I know what I will be doing!:)
 
Some pics of my baby - there is still more snow than we can eat here so we'll have to stick to posing for now.
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38b5257445714621a6e76c99804269e9.jpg

 
 
Ive always like the Katie, but not (yet) had one at the Elmtree Line. With the railways closure this year that may never happen!
 
Closure? Is that a move of house? I have ventured in to see the Elm Tree line so you're partly to blame for this new obsession.
You wait four months and suddenly two come along in 3 days. Thanks to John Cameron for the test run and to Jon (Dunneyrail) for the once over, talk through and syringe AND OIL. Lady Ann had one run before darkness took over. Learn as you go - too much burner and there are two plumes of steam to contend with.

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A bout of sickness has stopped running for a while so I'm still inmy steam infancy. My Katie that is 4 years old but credited with less than a dozen steaming is very keen to be blowing at the steam valve when the pressure gauge is below 40. Is this part of the running in process or should i be adjusting the steam valve? The gas regulator seems less controllable than my 15 year old lady Ann.
I'm also finding the 2.4 controller less easy to keep slow running under control than the 40mhz on Ann, is this loco based or controller?
Sorry to keep asking basic questions but still learning. I've also learnt I should have gone steamy years ago!
Any suggestions gratefully received.
 
Your safety valve may need a little adjustment if it is blowing off, rather that a little seepage and bubbling as it is coming up to working pressure at 40 psi. Roundhouse do a handy "multi tool" for this and other jobs on your loco. Not uncommon for a little used loco that has been sitting around for a while. But a visit to a service agent might be in order too.

Regards the gas regulator. If you turn the knob and undo it completely so you can withdraw it you will see it has a small O ring on it. Give the O ring a smear of steam oil and screw it all back in again. You should find the gas more controlable. Try to do this with the gas tank empty. It can be a regular task on all gas fired locos.

Noticable controlability and "glitching" issues are usually associated with the older types of 40 mhz R/C and and not the newer 2.4 ghz. Some go to the trouble of converting to more modern "digital" 2.4 ghz R/C systems e.g. Spectrum, Planet, etc'. Check first that your batteries in both receiver (RX) and transmitter (TX) are fully charged/fresh before doing anything else, as well as making sure there are no lose connections on either TX or RX ariels. It might be associated to how the servo on the regulator has been set up on installation or even due to running with a safety valve set at too low a pressure.

You might benefit from taking your loco into one of the many independent service agents in the UK for a little "ironing out", particularly if you suspect safety valve issues. Roundhouse will be able to recommend one near you. There are some who are members of this forum. They usually cost around £40 and hour. Well worth it to get the best out of ones pricey little posession and great for running tips and advise.

Max.
 
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