There are Batteries, batteries and batteries

[CoggesRailway]

I know there are loads of people who "know best" about this topic. However i run heavy trains with batteries so it may be worth listening, even though i am no chemist. U do need to forget AA. Please watch this all the way through. Nothing more than single pack 14.4v nimh sub c. The alco pulled this for over two hours. The drag on the drawbar was huge - I pulled it my self by hand to see!

I guess the key is get the most umph you can for the physical space- and invest the money to buy good quality/capability.

I have also found diode protected paralell packs a good solution, simple to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQoHGmmid44

Due to the power hungry nature of the USAT/ARISTO large diesels, I have cast AA sized cells aside and am concentrating on the maximum number of SUB-c sized cells that In can fit into the hoods alongside Aristo Revo boards, sound board etc.
I have not discarded the use of fully protected Li-Ion packs like the Aristo ones as they pack the power for smaller space.... BUT one thing that I was told by the aero/racing fraternity was that Lithium chemistry does hate the cold and that if I store the locos (with the batteries inside) in a cold environment (which they will be) the Li-Ion packs will not work optimally.

So I thanks all you lads greatly and also to the advice from the good trustworthy retailers.
Small locos...AA NiMH or small protected Li-ion
Large power hungry locos.... SUB-c NiMH or larger protected LI-ion
If size of void in loco is a problem then Li-Ion
If no problem with void size, then SUB-c as they are a lot cheaper! (they also have one more advantage..they add more weight for traction)

I will go for the 19.6V option as, although i do not run fast trains, I do have to climb large inclines and will need to drive the locos harder. DCC boards have back-emf but Aristo Revolution boards do not.

Sounds like sensible conclusion to me. Sorry if I sounded grumpy back there I just re read it !

 

[Claude Hamilton]

I use NiMh sub C packs on most of my consists either located in the tenders of steam outline e.g. Aristo Mallet or in the case of diesels in a trailing car. My batteries packs are 2 X 9.6v 3600mah capacity and give me the following run times: Aristocraft Mallet: pulling 10 wagons 2hours 20minutes, Aristocraft Pacific pulling 10 wagons 2hours 37 minutes, Aristocraft E8 X 2 pulling 6 heavyweight coaches 2 hours 8 minutes. All locos use sound and lights, I only use smoke on open days and then sparingly.
My mainline has a very steep grade for around fifty feet and once the battery packs get below 15v everything stops.
My point is that I do not think that Aristocraft locos are power hungry and I feel that if I reduce the grade on my main line I will probably achieve longer run times.
As an experiment I have been using Li-poly batteries in one of my Pacifics, again two packs one of 11.1v and the other 7.4v with a capacity of 2200mah. Run times with 10 wagons is 1hour 33minutes. I had a friend fit chokes in the circuit to prevent the packs falling below the minimum voltage. The jury is still out on whether Li-poly is the way forward because of the problems mentioned above. My NiMh batteries seem to go on forever and some packs are now 6 years old.
This is my first post and I hope my input is useful.
Claude Hamilton

 

[beavercreek]

Thank you for your input Claude.
Having a 10% incline, like on my line, causes the Aristo/USAT diesels to really grind the power out of a battery pack. LGB locos tend to extract less from the packs, as the bühler motors are more efficient than the those used in Aristo or especially USAT ones.
The problem with hanging a following battery wagon, or tender full of cells, is that the loco has to pull that up the gradient as well as the other cars. If the cells are in the locos themselves they have the advantage of adding traction.

I have decided to use the two Aristocraft Li-ion packs that I already had in a couple of medium diesels (GP30, GP38) and to use 18V 3300ah (15 cells) sub-c in the big triple axle bogie ones (SD45, SD70)

 

[ge_rik]

[quote author=ROSS link=topic=297073.msg297181#msg297181 date=1384605523]
Tell that to the Chinese!!
It has certainly affected buyers from Hobbyking, Hong Kong.
  Whether the mainland Chinese suppliers will acknowledge it, remains to be seen as they often downgrade the cost of goods on the customs gendec so nowt I suppose to stop them putting something else down instead of battery.

[/quote]
The two blue 12v li-ions which I just received from China (via Sweden.....  ??? ) were declared as LEDs and a gift on the customs label.


Can`t help wondering how sustainable that sort of deception is as presumably they x-ray parcels.

Rik

 

[Madman]

Thank you for your input Claude.
Having a 10% incline, like on my line, causes the Aristo/USAT diesels to really grind the power out of a battery pack. LGB locos tend to extract less from the packs, as the bühler motors are more efficient than the those used in Aristo or especially USAT ones.
The problem with hanging a following battery wagon, or tender full of cells, is that the loco has to pull that up the gradient as well as the other cars. If the cells are in the locos themselves they have the advantage of adding traction.

I have decided to use the two Aristocraft Li-ion packs that I already had in a couple of medium diesels (GP30, GP38) and to use 18V 3300ah (15 cells) sub-c in the big triple axle bogie ones (SD45, SD70)

I have heard this before, about USA Trains power hungry locos. Just what type of motor is in their locomotives?

 

[beavercreek]

Having a 10% incline, like on my line, causes the Aristo/USAT diesels to really grind the power out of a battery pack. LGB locos tend to extract less from the packs, as the bühler motors are more efficient than the those used in Aristo or especially USAT ones.


I have decided to use the two Aristocraft Li-ion packs that I already had in a couple of medium diesels (GP30, GP38) and to use 18V 3300ah (15 cells) sub-c in the big triple axle bogie ones (SD45, SD70)

I have heard this before, about USA Trains power hungry locos. Just what type of motor is in their locomotives?

Thirsty ones! I think that they are made my Matsushita.
Although when on the flat and not working hard they draw similar amps to Aristo motors and not too much more than LGB ones, it is when they are working hard that the power curve (amp draw) really climbs.

 

[tramcar trev]

Tell that to the Chinese!!
It has certainly affected buyers from Hobbyking, Hong Kong.
Whether the mainland Chinese suppliers will acknowledge it, remains to be seen as they often downgrade the cost of goods on the customs gendec so nowt I suppose to stop them putting something else down instead of battery.

The two blue 12v li-ions which I just received from China (via Sweden..... ??? ) were declared as LEDs and a gift on the customs label.
[attachimg=1]

Can't help wondering how sustainable that sort of deception is as presumably they x-ray parcels.

Rik

Not all parcels are x-rayed. They way they work here is that parcels from "suspect" countries are x-rayed and they are usually looking for drugs. Sorting here at least is electronic with only mail from suspect countries going onto the conveyor for examination. We currently have a blitz on firearms being sent through the post and things may change for the worst for battery imports... HM customs would need a very sizeable workforce to examine each packet.

 

[Enginehouse]

I have just been reading the latest Royal Mail leaflet on prohibited and restricted items. It seems that (quote) "batteries, specifically new and used Lithium batteries when not sent with or connected to an electronic device" (unquote) are forbidden across both international and UK internal post by Royal Mail.


However I have just this morning via Royal Mail delivery received a set of 4 type 18650 3.7 volt lithium batteries along with a very nice rapid charger and UK mains lead in the same packet. Obviously it's fine to send as many Lithium batteries as needs dictate, so long as a charger is included. This complies with the regulation as written, (see quote above). More pointless and ineffectual twaddle from the professed professionals. Interestingly it is not a requirement to inform Post Office Counters staff of the contents of parcels and indeed parcels cannot be refused on this basis. This is a statement from Royal Mail Senior Management that I have on file. One is only required to state that the contents of any parcel "complies with the current regulations in force". The truly obnoxious female jobsworth at our local post office has quietly disappeared after deciding to make an issue of this and refuse to accept mail.

 

[The Devonian]

I have just been reading the latest Royal Mail leaflet on prohibited and restricted items. It seems that (quote) "batteries, specifically new and used Lithium batteries when not sent with or connected to an electronic device" (unquote) are forbidden across both international and UK internal post by Royal Mail.

The post by Roy and some of the more recent ones here should cause some concern I feel.
Reading the transcript from the post by Roy suggests that a lithium battery is not prohibited when connected to an electronic device - even an electronically controlled bomb I presume?
Well, that is how I read it!

 

[PhilP]

You might find the 'bomb' bit contravenes the regulations though..

So curses! Your plans for world domination fail at the Post Office counter!