three years into Marklin take-over and excellent LGB program 2011!

You don´t have much choice. There is no LGB Climax or Aristocraft Heidis offered.
But you can buy a Saxon Ik from Accucraft or maybe someday in plastic from LGB. At least they announced one last month. Both makers only offer them in a wrong scale / gauge combination.

Have Fun

Juergen 7 Otter 1
 
Agree absolutely, Juergen and Mel - though I subscribe fully to Rule 8, my personal preference is for European profile stuff (though I will happily mix Austrian, German and Swiss prototypes!), so I buy mainly LGB, with a little bit of Piko here and there, and I also freely admit to having several pieces of "Naughty Newqida" rolling stock.... ;)
I'm keenly awaiting what happens with the promised Trainline45 locos, they sound very nice indeed.
Having said that, a very large percentage of my LGB purchases has been second-hand stock at much less than current prices, and while there is still so much good, old German-built LGB to be had on the second-hand market I will most likely restrict my new purchases to the occasional item that I really "must" have, like the new KoF!
My only real concerns about LGB at present are if Marklin start cutting corners on technical stuff like motors, electronics and the quality of the plastics.

I have no problem with USAT, Aristo etc, in fact I've frequently looked longingly at the amazing stuff they make for quite reasonable prices, but I don't buy them simply because I don't run US stock in general. I have made an exception for a couple of Hartland switchers (a Mack and a Sparky), because they are just so damn cute! :D

Jon.
 
You don´t have much choice. There is no LGB Climax or Aristocraft Heidis offered.

By far the most sensible comment so far. I think we are very lucky that there are a range of manufacturers offering different outline products to suit many different tastes. And from the comments on this thread and on the wider forum it would seem that all of the manufacturers are producing products with which most of their customers are very happy, so well done to all of them. Variety is the spice of life chaps, long may it continue!

PS A huge thank you to Mike for Rule 8 which I employ extensively. What's wonderful about it is that by it's very nature you get to implement it as much or as little as you like. Brilliant!
 
Red%20Box%20Altar.jpg

I just wish people would stop putting LGB on so high a pedestal. Its just one company among many.

Question: If LGB doesn't make what I want, than am I still stupid for not buying them?

Sadly I have gotten that attitude before the Big Burst and even since then even more sadly to say. :impatient:

Its all first rate stuff but today its also very expensive when compared to similar items made by other manufacturers and quite simply, for alot of rolling stock its not any better or worse than those items, track is identical in usage, the only clear advantage LGB has is in turnouts, but Aristo offers a far wider range of radius' in their turnouts to effectivly take over the market over here. Especially if your running the really big engines so popular over here.

EPL never made a plastic Shay or Climax so they lost that market to Bachmann, they never made a real US mainline diesel beside the F7 so Aristocraft/USA took that market. Marklin is now trying to re-establish the brand but has decided to focus on the world market for now, so all us lot over here wont get much in the next few years besides repaints.

Its just the cost factor for me that really keeps the door closed, especially when I consider the alternatives. $700 for an F7? Really...$700???? for $450 I can get an A and a B unit both from USA, that would be $1200 from LGB, and $450 for a little 2-axle road KoF Switcher??? and thats at a discounter, at Walthers the F7 is almost $1000 !!! REALLY? at that price I expect it to fetch my newspaper and fix breakfast as well.

At Walthers, US passenger cars are $150 ????? I mean lets be SERIOUS, the LGB open platform passenger cars are for all intents and purposes nearly IDENTICAL to Bachmann coaches which are $90 less if you look around. If they had reissued the closed vestible cars which are really close to the cars being used on the Silverton trains trains today, and at $150+ would still be a hellova lot less than the closed platform San Juan cars Accucraft offer and would have a clear advantage over the competition, but they market what they market and we just have to see what they decide to offer.

After my downsizing I still have 6 Porters, an Americanized Stainz and several EPL era cars, all my track on the old layout was LGB, but today I have mostly HLW engines & stock which are every bit as reliable and durable as LGB, and with Marklins current pricing structure, actually are more affordable.

Maybe a slight ammend to Rule 9 ? I'll buy whatever I like and can afford, because I'd sure like a couple brass engines from Missouri Locomotive Works but just because I like them, sure doesn't mean I can afford them... ;)
 
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I mean lets be SERIOUS, the LGB open platform passenger cars are for all intents and purposes nearly IDENTICAL to Bachmann coaches which are $90 less if you look around

Actually they have different lengths. Bachmann are mady of styrene, LGB from (heavier) Luran S. Bachmann is made in China, these LGB coaches were made in Germany.... So if you try to compare, you should know, what you are talking about.

Märklin / LGB announced, they will withdraw from Chinese manufacture as contracts permit. Most of their models are made in Europe (Hungary) now. Their switches are still very toylike and not in any way prototypically.

We will see what will happen with LGB. After all, they kicked out all of their experienced staff. It might take a while until new are trained.

Have Fun

Juergen / Otter 1
 
i get other makers are selling nice things-
and when i see the technology that other scales incorporate for what seem a great price-LGB seems pre-historic , and extremely expensive

heres my POV-
LGB engineered most of it stuff very carefully to run
and since they had a gerenrous warranty-
to avoid warranty work
and to be serviced if necessary
the stuff is simple-having box cars with molded on grab irons used to turn me off-untilll the later versions with real grab irons -that were far more delicate-simply-i favor lgb most because it lasts and performs-and without a doubt -retains value (for the time being at least)


i am busy-i hate broken anything-especially a $300+ loco
i hate HAVING to spend hours at the bench or finding parts to fix something- iwant simple and i am(was) willing to pay for this -one less thing to manage
 
Cheeky Monkey said:
LGB
To know it is to love it:love:
Click to expand...

Indeed, though isn't that a Roundhouse "Billy" prominent on the middle track?! :bigsmile:
 
Essentially this discussion is like saying " Tulips, to Know them is to love them:love:" and then discounting every other flower .
If you are so narrow minded that you criticise everything that you do not personally run then I feel sorry for you.
 
otter,

My American lgb coaches have made in china stamped on them. quality is still great andi couldn't have bashed them into tram cars had theybeen made like bachman
 
Sorry, I did not know, LGB had outsourced the production of their American Coaches to China as well. The last piece of new LGB I purchased in 1998.

I never hesitate to use material from different makers for my modelling.

BlitzalterungHolz.jpg


Above is a LGB railtruck with a Bachmann combine assembled from a cheap kit. I think, the Bachmann coaches are longer than the LGB products.

One advantage of LGB products is, you get incredible high prices at the 2nd hand market for it. When I sold my brass track which had been laying in the garden for more than 20 years, I was amazed, that people paid much more for it (via Ebay) , than I had originally invested.
Today I prefer lower Code 250 steel track. Looks better and is much cheaper than brass.

Have Fun

Juergen / Otter 1
 
H'mmm - reminds me of a lot of Bachmann stuff - funny, I thought it was inferior to LGB.
 
wow! i post a message and come return to the forum and it has hundreds of replies...obviously dropped a bomb shell here.

just an fyi...
i think there is nothing wrong with purchasing a new lgb item for big bux$$ and having a QC problem with it, and then wanting to gripe a bit about it afterward. after all, a train forum should help address your problems with your trains and that has helped me with some trains in the past also...

but the general gripe now seems to be "marklin made lgb is too expensive for lgbers" is somewhat archaic of an argument.

in the 1980s, lgb was not cheap. ( i have only lived in the usa). a 1000 piece of track was over $5.00 USF at Karl's Toys in 1985, a popular US toy retailer in shopping malls that sold Lehmann trains (and was one of the major toy stores in shopping malls that introduced people to The Big Train). Anyone with a middle-school knowledge of economics would realize that $5.00 back in 1985 was more money to pay for a piece of 1000 track than the current $5.75 you are paying now at a LGB train shop (like my local shop charges for Marklin made 1000 track).

a starter set in 1985 could cost $450 and might NOT include a power supply to run it (another $45). again, middle-school econ will dictate these prices are HIGHER than the $415-$455 price you pay for the current LGB starter set (which INCLUDES sound and a 1 amp power pack). also, we have more options to find deals now on LGB, you can shop online and NOT PAY SALES TAX, which could add another $30-50 to the total.

the beloved 2070D in grey livery was $330 at my local LGB train shop in 1991. i felt i couldn't "afford it" at the time--now the very same engine on ebay sells for over $400 on average.

the problem is not marklin wanting to over-price LGB nowadays in order to have the Lehmann Big Train ship sink into oblivion. a more reasonable cause includes the global economy, our sell-out to China and its labor pool, relying on energy sources controlled by other nations, and sky-rocketing real estate prices are having a negative effect on the standard of living for the US and European citizenry. no one escapes this pinch--least of all not Marklin which is trying to produce the best train products in a world that has got use to buying the cheap and shoddy.

lgb is perhaps the MOST expensive initially in G Scale trains. so what? you pay an extra $150-$200 at the time of purchase for say, a KOF engine...a little chunky Germanic switcher that would only cost half that amount from another company. but ten years later, which one is going to have a high resale value? which one is going to have any resale value? chances are, its the LGB. a non-descript LGB stainz from 1985 will still run today after being abused and misused by numerous 5 years olds--that is value.

the current price for a Sumpter Mallet is very reasonable--look at what Lionel charges for a top-of-the-line Steam engine that is half the size and can't be run outdoors in all weather.

the harzer 2-10-2 is even more reasonably priced when you consider that NO OTHER company even offers this prototype with outdoor running capability and extensive detail.

is your blue-ray player or ipad going to be worth the $600 in ten years ? certainly if you can rationalize throwing that kind of money away on electronics an initial investment in lgb is more lucrative.
 
garrymartin said:
Essentially this discussion is like saying " Tulips, to Know them is to love them:love:" and then discounting every other flower .
If you are so narrow minded that you criticise everything that you do not personally run then I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...
Ah, Tulips. I only got interested in them once I read about the Tulip mania crash in 1637, but now I will only have tulips bulbs in my garden that have 'grown in Holland' stamped on them.

The Americans have tried cultivating them, with some moderate success, but beware the Chinese ones, which tend to bolt to the light and then bend over.

I've recently signed up to a petition asking The Royal Horticultural Society to only recognise the name 'Tulip' as coming from Holland, and that flowers of that genus from any other country must be differently named.

Happy Gardening
 
Rhinochugger said:
garrymartin said:
Essentially this discussion is like saying " Tulips, to Know them is to love them:love:" and then discounting every other flower .
If you are so narrow minded that you criticise everything that you do not personally run then I feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...
Ah, Tulips. I only got interested in them once I read about the Tulip mania crash in 1637, but now I will only have tulips bulbs in my garden that have 'grown in Holland' stamped on them.

The Americans have tried cultivating them, with some moderate success, but beware the Chinese ones, which tend to bolt to the light and then bend over.

I've recently signed up to a petition asking The Royal Horticultural Society to only recognise the name 'Tulip' as coming from Holland, and that flowers of that genus from any other country must be differently named.

Happy Gardening
Click to expand...
For the best Tulips, try mushing up a small domestic rodent, boiling it and adding sugar. Cos everybody knows ..................................





...................... you get Tulips from Hamster Jam :bigsmile:.
 
Hello,

I have not posted in a while...

In relation to the Heidi, the grab rail are flexible (bend) like this on the previous Made in Germany production, too, at least on the Heidi I have seen. Regarding the coaches, has Marklin actually made the RhB museum coaches or are they 'old' production, too?

Now, I will better not mention the hand rails on my LGB Steam Pub car - Made in Germany, by the way :impatient: My 'Made in Hungary' stock is excellent, except for the 100 Jahre Bernina Ge4/4, which went straight back to the dealer :@
 
metzbahner said:
i think there is nothing wrong with purchasing a new lgb item for big bux$$ and having a QC problem with it, and then wanting to gripe a bit about it afterward. after all, a train forum should help address your problems ...
Click to expand...
Well said, I think your original post was a little too glowing with the rash of recent problems ;)
oberinntalbahn said:
Firstly, I model Austrian/Swiss narrow gauge, so at the moment all of my locomotives are LGB (that's the real LGB made in Germany) and secondly, until recently I have had no problems with quality at all.

Unfortunately, this was not the case with my last purchase, an RhB G 3/4 Heidi and matching 4-wheel coaches. Once unpacked and placed on the track I discovered: (a) the locomotive had a defective smoke; unit and (b) the plastic handrails were anything but straight.
This is not what I expect from a manufacturer that claims it's products are made to the highest quality and for which it charges a very high price.
Click to expand...
Nigel's as with most of the other criticisims in this thread come from established LGB owners which is why this thread struck such a chord I think
Neil has replaced the bendy plastic with brass wire having carefully drilled out the handrail knobs and my Heidi will follow suit when I get around to it.
Ref the smoke unit hopefully we'll have that sorted soon. :bigsmile:

oberinntalbahn said:
Will I purchase any more LGB/Marklin? - not unless they get their act together and start producing models to the same quality as previously.
Click to expand...
And I agree unless I can see it run first I'll be very wary of buying anything at present so money will stay in pocket except for the occasional show for the time being.

I also still believe that they need to sort out the entry level stuff with a better budget range or their sales are going to continue to struggle and that just means less of the desirable stuff at the top end ultimately. Limited expensive exclusives is not how I got into LGB european G and I don't want to see the whole range heading toward the exclusivity of the Aster LGB collaborations due to price ;)
 
Handrails on a heavy model like a G-scale loco are always going to be problematic - I suspect LGB use the flexy plastic ones because they don't break too easily, especially the long ones along boiler or tank sides which is exactly where you want to grab the loco to pick it up. But, as we all know (and the Heidi in the pics is a very clear example) the bendy plastic ones can look awful! My Piko V60, on the other hand, has fairly rigid plastic handrails that look excellent, but every time I pick it up I'm wary of breaking one.
Bendy handrails is nothing new for LGB, and is certainly not a symptom of the recent changes - I have a 20+ year old Schoema diesel that has those horrible bendy U-shape handrails, which you simply cannot get to stay straight, and that was from the "golden age" of LGB production. The plastic hood-top rails on my new LGB KoF, on the other hand, are much more rigid and more like the Piko ones - so once again I'm scared of breaking them if I pick it up wrong...!
What we need is some ultra-tech "memory plastic" that will deform when handled, but spring back to perfect straightness afterwards! Failing that, than maybe metal is the only answer - though I suspect that even that would have its problems, in that if you did accidentally bend one it would stay bent. I certainly agree with PaulRhB that for the Heidi in the pics, brass rod is probably the best solution.

Jon.
 
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