Zenner Saxon baggage Car.....

Zerogee said:
Don't worry about thread drift, JonD - I think most of what needs to be said about the Zenner car is done, I'm quite happy if this devolves into a discussion about decals! ;)

What is Methfix, I haven't come across the term before....?

Jon.
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As I am about to get ready for bed, I just thought I'd throw this definition in the ring ;D Isn't a Methfix the drink of those who live on park benches?
 
Methfix, as the name impies, uses a methelated spirit based solvent to apply the transfer/decal as apposed to water as with, again as the name implies, waterslide transfers. As with waterslide, methfix tranfers can be moved around after application by using a drop of solvent. The advantage with methfix decals is that thet do not have a carrier, so there is no shiney film to worry about.

David


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David1226 said:
Methfix, as the name impies, uses a methelated spirit based solvent to apply the transfer/decal as apposed to water as with, again as the name implies, waterslide transfers. As with waterslide, methfix tranfers can be moved around after application by using a drop of solvent. The advantage with methfix decals is that thet do not have a carrier, so there is no shiney film to worry about.

David
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Thanks for the explanation, David..... so, is there any way of getting short-run sheets done by that method, or is it strictly for mass-production only?

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
Thanks for the explanation, David..... so, is there any way of getting short-run sheets done by that method, or is it strictly for mass-production only?

Jon.
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Jon

I gleaned the above information from a Google search of methfix decals. I have no information re suppliers. I did glean from my quick look that methfix tranfers are not as avialable as they used to be due to a shortage of the very specialised paper that they are printed on. As you are aware of your specific needs, I suggest you get on't t'internet and do a trawl of decal/transfer suppliers/manufactureres. You may turn up something revolutionary to benefit us all, along the lines of your cheap simulated coal from Dunelm.

David
 
David1226 said:
... methfix tranfers can be moved around after application by using a drop of solvent ...
... The advantage with methfix decals is that thet do not have a carrier, so there is no shiney film to worry about.
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Without some sort of carrier/binder layer, wouldn't thin lined items such as lettering be rather flimsy and tend to break up if moved ? I have no experience of methfix (as far as I can remember).
 
ntpntpntp said:
Without some sort of carrier/binder layer, wouldn't thin lined items such as lettering be rather flimsy and tend to break up if moved ? I have no experience of methfix (as far as I can remember).
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Looking at one of the model rail sites it would appear that initially a "methfix" type transfer has a carrier film that is broken down during the process of application with a water/meths mix. There was also a comment that the same meths mix can be used with old dry print decals where the adhesive had failed due to age. Again all this was on the first page of a Google search using tne term "methfix". Seems a formerly common product in the smaller scales.Max
 
I thought that Methfix were printed face down onto a shellac coated carrier. The meths then softened the print and melted the shellac so that the carrier could be removed from the front of the image. No backing film, but very fragile as a result.

I tried a recipe for a waterslide carrier film made of tissue dope & castor oil, which you painted onto brown paper parcel tape. You then drew or painted your image, and added another coat of the evil brew. It worked, but the carrier was very thin and fragile.
 
Hmmm, all this talk of decals has reminded me of some military vehicle markings that I had some time ago (from Skytrex, a firm that some of you may also know from their O gauge railway involvement, though sadly they went bust a year or two back) - they were waterslide decals of a sort, but they didn't work in the conventional manner. As mentioned in the post above, they were printed "face-down" on their carrier paper, with a backing sheet that you peeled carefully away from the "back" side of the decal - the back was left slightly tacky, enough to carefully position the decal on the model still with the carrier paper attached to the front of the decal - you then wetted the carrier paper, this soaked through and released the decal, which was still stuck in place on the model. You would carefully peel the carrier away leaving the decal, which you then VERY GENTLY burnished to press it securely onto the model. A varnish spray was strongly advised to protect it once it was dry.

Sounds rather like the Methfix method described, although this was achieved with water only.

Jon.
 
I think they were a later version known as Pressfix, again very delicate, as you say. Worth it though, to avoid the backing.
 
Zerogee said:
Hmmm, all this talk of decals has reminded me of some military vehicle markings that I had some time ago (from Skytrex, a firm that some of you may also know from their O gauge railway involvement, though sadly they went bust a year or two back) - they were waterslide decals of a sort, but they didn't work in the conventional manner. As mentioned in the post above, they were printed "face-down" on their carrier paper, with a backing sheet that you peeled carefully away from the "back" side of the decal - the back was left slightly tacky, enough to carefully position the decal on the model still with the carrier paper attached to the front of the decal - you then wetted the carrier paper, this soaked through and released the decal, which was still stuck in place on the model. You would carefully peel the carrier away leaving the decal, which you then VERY GENTLY burnished to press it securely onto the model. A varnish spray was strongly advised to protect it once it was dry.

Sounds rather like the Methfix method described, although this was achieved with water only.

Jon.
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They sound to be very similar to transfers used on buses and other public transport. The only difference being that Goldsize varnish was applied (after removing the backing) and allowed to go tacky before being applied to the vehicle. The carrier paper was then washed or peeled off. Coach or Copal varnish was used to protect the transfer.
 
meiningen8 said:
Is it me or is all this talk about transfers a bit over the top considering the gauge question
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Sorry, not quite sure I understand what you mean.....?

Jon.
 
meiningen8 said:
Saxon railways are 750mil whereas the models run on a scale 1000mil so the gauge Is 25% too wide
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Unless the rubber ruler was used, and the model built to 1:16.7! ??? :o ;) ;)


INCOMING!!!!!
(Ducks for cover)!
 
meiningen8 said:
Saxon railways are 750mil whereas the models run on a scale 1000mil so the gauge Is 25% too wide
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Ah, OK..... I think that's a compromise that the vast majority of G-scalers simply accept, especially those who run LGB. ;)
However, I don't think that it's the same sort of thing as the decal situation we've been discussing - at least not the part regarding the visual appeal (or lack thereof) of of the "glossy sticker" type. If we'd all been complaining that the font size used for the decals was 2 points too large or too small, then your comparison might be more valid..... :)

Jon.
 
fair comment but LGB and Marklin have both used plastic coated stickers no complaints about them. to me Zenner are doing their best
 
The whole body needs to be sprayed in high gloss. Apply the transfers and cut as close to lettering as possible.The glossy base of the tarnsfer will blend in with the gloss paint. Now spray the whole body in satin!
 
Problem is what is supplied is a "thick" plastic stick on not a "thin" waterslide. You will still have a very noticeable raised bit of plastic. And it will tend to lift as the adhesive fails over time and the solvents in the laquer may react with adhesive, carrier media type and print. You need a properly produced waterslide type or dry print. The methfix still looks interesting though. Max
 
maxi-model said:
the solvents in the laquer may react with adhesive, carrier media type and print. You need a properly produced waterslide type or dry print.
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The supplier of the transfer/decals can often supply paint which will not react. Troeger in Germany does!

http://www.modellbahnbeschriftung.de/
 
Still does not get rid of the "raised" nature of the transfer (OK you could go for multiple coats and some very careful rubbing down, but that causes other risks) nor the mismatches in colour background used on some transfers, as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Looking at the Troeger website the Mipa brand laquer shown seems to be a part of a regular "automotive" type paint range. If the guy says it works with its products then it should. But still does not get rid of the first points mentioned which would still register a "no buy" from me in this application.

Been modeling and producing with waterslides, dry print and laquered finishes for 40 years. Have tried stickies, when doing some low cost slot car liveries (over compound curves, hairdryer job), but would never consider those at these prices, especially with a mismatched background. Max.
 
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