Battery v Track power - a personal perspective

I'm firmly in the track power for big locos and battery for little ones camp. I have seven battery powered all from one Deltang transmitter. My USAT diesel fleet will remain dc track power as will my large Bachmann locos. I don't understand an earlier comment about programming the Deltang equipment. I just wire in the receiver and bind it to the transmitter, nothing more. Where I have lights or a sound card I wire these to the receiver.

I find cleaning the track useful as while cleaning I also pull out any weeds that are starting, clear away leaves and twigs and occasionally remove other unmentionables from the track. It's not just about electrical conductivity.
 
Zerogee said:
I know this has been discussed before, Jon, but the Tam Valley DRS (Dead Rail System) provides ALMOST all of what the elusively mythical Massoth DRC promised - the only thing you can't do with it is do run locos directly from a wireless Navigator without a Central Station linked to one of the DRS transmitters, but this isn't really a big problem (and there is always the Stanton S-Cab handset as an option if you want an all-in-one hand-held solution for when you go visiting other layouts).
Other than that, it provides seamless DCC control of battery locos, including sound functions, for a broadly similar cost per loco to that proposed for the DRC if it had ever appeared.

Jon.
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I did some time back buy a set of Tam Valley kit, must use that investment to see how I like it.
JonD
 
dunnyrail said:
I did some time back buy a set of Tam Valley kit, must use that investment to see how I like it.
JonD
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You're in the same position as me then, Jon, got the DRS receivers in the projects pile but need to get them into a loco or two! I've also got the S-Cab handset and suitable Ansmann battery packs, charger etc, all I'm missing is time.... ;)

The only person I know who has bought AND USED any of the Tam Valley gear is Cliff George, and he's had great success with it, I've witnessed his locos running on it at several meetings and it seems to work faultlessly.

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
You're in the same position as me then, Jon, got the DRS receivers in the projects pile but need to get them into a loco or two! I've also got the S-Cab handset and suitable Ansmann battery packs, charger etc, all I'm missing is time.... ;)

The only person I know who has bought AND USED any of the Tam Valley gear is Cliff George, and he's had great success with it, I've witnessed his locos running on it at several meetings and it seems to work faultlessly.

Jon.
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I guess the thing that puts me off some with the Tam Kit is the reliance on a base Station to be present. This means that visiting other lines woild be difficult, presumably unless fitted out with Tam as well. The Massoth DRC as I understood it recieved a signal direct from the Handset thus meaning one could take the Loco and your Massoth Handset and be up and running at a visitors line. Though these days I seldom take locomotives except for my Live Steam and Aristo fitted Battery Railcar, though it would be nice to take my Aster/LGB Harz 2-10-2 out on occasion.
JonD
 
dunnyrail said:
I guess the thing that puts me off some with the Tam Kit is the reliance on a base Station to be present. This means that visiting other lines woild be difficult, presumably unless fitted out with Tam as well. The Massoth DRC as I understood it recieved a signal direct from the Handset thus meaning one could take the Loco and your Massoth Handset and be up and running at a visitors line. Though these days I seldom take locomotives except for my Live Steam and Aristo fitted Battery Railcar, though it would be nice to take my Aster/LGB Harz 2-10-2 out on occasion.
JonD
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The Stanton S-Cab handset gets over that exact problem, and allows the Tam Valley DRS to work without a Central Station (effectively there is a DCC CS built into the handheld S-Cab) - OK, the S-Cab isn't quite as nice aesthetically as a Massoth Navigator, but it does pretty much the same job.....
Plenty of room in the 2-10-2 for a 14.8v 5.2Ah li-ion pack and the other necessary bits.... ;)

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
The Stanton S-Cab handset gets over that exact problem, and allows the Tam Valley DRS to work without a Central Station (effectively there is a DCC CS built into the handheld S-Cab) - OK, the S-Cab isn't quite as nice aesthetically as a Massoth Navigator, but it does pretty much the same job.....
Plenty of room in the 2-10-2 for a 14.8v 5.2Ah li-ion pack and the other necessary bits.... ;)

Jon.
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I have not yet had time to digest the S-cab info just yet, but on the face of it it has possibilities. The Handsets are pretty good on price, even with the trashed Pound. I will be looking carefully later to see what the Ampage range is as their blurb talks about HO to S Scales. This would certainly put it into the realm of small LGB Locomotives such as Stainz and Corpets, perhaps even the 0-6-2's and 2-6-2 I would have thought. Any UK suppliers?
JonD
 
For me battery power beats track power hands down. I have a very small set up (with 2 battery RC locos and 1 still track powered loco until I convert it to battery) still I feel frustrated with track power.

I think track power is analogous to Kodak failing to embrace digital photography. Most manufacturers invested so much on track power they want to capitalize on that technology rather than venturing the new platform. A similar analogy can also be given in likes of Tesla and I predict in 10 years time electric cars will triumph of petrol/diesel ones.

Also, I find battery power more realistic. Real trains don't pick up power from track :)

Track power is frustrating for newbies. Most new entrants on garden railways run trains only occassionally every few months (or weeks). Track power just does not work unless one runs trains frequently (e.g. few times a week).

I even think that the lack of reasonably priced off the shelf RC battery locos is preventing the spread of this hobby.

PS: Why does my profile show US flag instead of UK flag?? :wondering:
 
dunnyrail said:
I have not yet had time to digest the S-cab info just yet, but on the face of it it has possibilities. The Handsets are pretty good on price, even with the trashed Pound. I will be looking carefully later to see what the Ampage range is as their blurb talks about HO to S Scales. This would certainly put it into the realm of small LGB Locomotives such as Stainz and Corpets, perhaps even the 0-6-2's and 2-6-2 I would have thought. Any UK suppliers?
JonD
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I ordered my S-Cab directly from the US, as a special order with the "Euro" band frequency to match the Tam Valley DRS "Euro" receivers. As far as I can recall there was no cost premium for this option. Took a couple of weeks because it was a made-to-order item, but I think it's good value when you consider it is an all-in-one DCC control set. The S-Cab has an internal Li-ion battery which recharges from a USB port.

I'm not using the other components of the Stanton system, just their handheld Cab to talk to the Tam Valley receiver in the loco(s), so Stanton's details about suitable scales and amperages are irrelevant in my case; the Tam Valley "large scale" receiver is rated at 3 amp continuous and 5 amp peak, which is ample to run an XLS in a twin-motor LGB loco.

Jon.
 
Mobi said:
Also, I find battery power more realistic. Real trains don't pick up power from track...
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I think you'll find train travellers in the south east of England or Merseyside or the London Underground may not agree with you here! :-)

On your other points I agree battery power has some advantages and I'm happy that you and others find it the best solution, but it's not for me. The pros and cons have been well discussed many times on this forum. I'd hate to think that newbies were turned off the hobby through lack of ready to run battery locos when track power is perfectly usable, and I would contest it will continue to be the most used form of power for many years to come.
 
idlemarvel said:
I think you'll find train travellers in the south east of England or Merseyside or the London Underground may not agree with you here! :)

On your other points I agree battery power has some advantages and I'm happy that you and others find it the best solution, but it's not for me. The pros and cons have been well discussed many times on this forum. I'd hate to think that newbies were turned off the hobby through lack of ready to run battery locos when track power is perfectly usable, and I would contest it will continue to be the most used form of power for many years to come.
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I'd certainly agree with you, Dave - of the dozen or so open days listed in the Essex Area GSS schedule for this year, only one (that I can think of) is at a line which uses no track power at all. I think that the majority of G-scalers still use track power as their primary method and will continue to do so, though some may have the odd battery loco or two as well. My own foray into battery is strictly as a sideline to my main track-powered loco fleet, and the thought of the work and cost involved in converting even a part of my 50+ stable is horrific.....
The use of battery locos is of course much more common with the 16mil boys, most of whom will have some kind of battery power for running in between their live steamers!

Jon.
 
Mobi said:
For me battery power beats track power hands down. I have a very small set up (with 2 battery RC locos and 1 still track powered loco until I convert it to battery) still I feel frustrated with track power.

I think track power is analogous to Kodak failing to embrace digital photography. Most manufacturers invested so much on track power they want to capitalize on that technology rather than venturing the new platform. A similar analogy can also be given in likes of Tesla and I predict in 10 years time electric cars will triumph of petrol/diesel ones.

Also, I find battery power more realistic. Real trains don't pick up power from track :)

Track power is frustrating for newbies. Most new entrants on garden railways run trains only occassionally every few months (or weeks). Track power just does not work unless one runs trains frequently (e.g. few times a week).

I even think that the lack of reasonably priced off the shelf RC battery locos is preventing the spread of this hobby.

PS: Why does my profile show US flag instead of UK flag?? :wondering:
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I agree with you about the trains, but not necessarily about the cars, until I can get from Sussex to York or Barnstaple without recharging. My locos are mostly track powered but I am gradually converting to battery power, with a towed battery van if necessary (most of my stuff just runs around and around while I dream) but I do intend to have some shunters with on-board battery power and anything that I build will have enough room for batteries. Changing batteries, or recharging, is a pain of course but I did have a job where my first duty of the day was to change and recharge batteries for all the radios for our mobile patrols so it's just brain in neutral and get on with it.......!
 
From wiring the layout point of view, battery power has got to be best. No worries about return loops, dodgy point frogs or isolation gaps. And batteries these days seem far superior than 5 years ago.
 
With the benefit of hindsight, battery power is, in my view the way I would go if I started in G scale now.

But since I have invested a considerable sum in some 40 locos and DCC, I will continue with track power - for now.

There are many more R/C kits out there than the usual suspects guys - one of my other hobbies is 1:16 scale tanks - R/C with digital sound is out there with smoke too. And the sound is every bit as good as anything Massoth/Dietz etc produce. It is also fully programmable and you can add your own recordings too.

I currently have one battery powered Stainz (batteries in the cab, can't be doing with tethered battery wagons) which is great on dirty/icy track.

So at present the track cleaning block is used once a fortnight over the 450 feet of track......
 
AustrianNG said:
There are many more R/C kits out there than the usual suspects guys - one of my other hobbies is 1:16 scale tanks - R/C with digital sound is out there with smoke too. And the sound is every bit as good as anything Massoth/Dietz etc produce. It is also fully programmable and you can add your own recordings too.
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Be interested to learn of some of these systems, perhaps a link or two would help pretty please.
JonD
 
Like Paul, I invested in track power from the outset. I've always used a DCC setup and I have no experience of battery operation at all.

Whilst I can see that battery power has the advantage of not needing to keep the track clean and allowing smaller/lighter locos to run without worrying about conectivity or adhesion issues, I'm unclear on how it can be used to operate points, signals, etc. with the same level of ease and flexibility that a DCC-based setup can.

I know that logically it must be possible to wire up a battery to a point motor but, unless the battery is left in situ and hooked up to some kind of permanent charging arrangement, wouldn't every running session need to be preceded by a process of ensuring every point/signal motor has adequate battery power and. if not, installing fully charged batteries? This sounds like much more of a faff than simply turing on the power to the layout.

Maybe there's a trade-off here that says if you use battery power to get the benefits of running without track cleaning you have to go for simpler track plans and/or have to ensure that all points/signals are in easy-to-access locations to enable easy battery swapping? No doubt I'm missing something obvious here - perhaps some of the battery-powered folkswould be kind enough to share their experiences of handling points and signals so I can broaden my knowledge.

Cheers
 
Ralphmp said:
Like Paul, I invested in track power from the outset. I've always used a DCC setup and I have no experience of battery operation at all.

Whilst I can see that battery power has the advantage of not needing to keep the track clean and allowing smaller/lighter locos to run without worrying about conectivity or adhesion issues, I'm unclear on how it can be used to operate points, signals, etc. with the same level of ease and flexibility that a DCC-based setup can.

I know that logically it must be possible to wire up a battery to a point motor but, unless the battery is left in situ and hooked up to some kind of permanent charging arrangement, wouldn't every running session need to be preceded by a process of ensuring every point/signal motor has adequate battery power and. if not, installing fully charged batteries? This sounds like much more of a faff than simply turing on the power to the layout.

Maybe there's a trade-off here that says if you use battery power to get the benefits of running without track cleaning you have to go for simpler track plans and/or have to ensure that all points/signals are in easy-to-access locations to enable easy battery swapping? No doubt I'm missing something obvious here - perhaps some of the battery-powered folkswould be kind enough to share their experiences of handling points and signals so I can broaden my knowledge.

Cheers
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I am a person who likes to be involved in my railway. I run trains from station to station, quarry to harbour and do lots of shunting; just like a real railway. This means that I walk around with the trains and I switch the points using an amazingly flexible and portable device which requires no wiring or battery or DCC ..... my finger.

I use DCC on my small scale layouts but even then find DCC to be an unnecessarily tedious and expensive way of changing points. In that environment I use DC switches with Cobalt point motors to change the points.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
 
Ralphmp said:
perhaps some of the battery-powered folkswould be kind enough to share their experiences of handling points and signals so I can broaden my knowledge.

Cheers
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Hi Ralph
As previously, this is just my perspective. When I first set up my railway, I used DC track power and so wired-up point motors to the points which were awkward to reach to a control panel in the outhouse. When I went over to DCC, I put the decoders for the points into the same box rather than having to weatherproof them. When I went over to RC I replaced the decoders with a Deltang receiver feeding a simple Picaxe based system to energise the point motors. I could have replaced the point motors with servos, but as the wiring for the LGB point motors was already in place it seemed easier to use that.

There's more info on my blog - http://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2015/08/how-i-operate-some-of-my-points-by.html

Rik

PS - I energise some of my signals from a centrally located 12v battery, one of those cheap keyfob transmitters and another simple Picaxe system - http://riksrailway.blogspot.com/2016/02/how-i-used-picaxe-to-operate-semaphore.html
 
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