Experiences of Dietz sound modules vs. Massoth S....?
- Thread starter Zerogee
- Start date
craigwrdouglas
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Cliff George said:
The Dietz site describes the DCC2SUSI Module as:
DCC decoder with SUSI output for easy retrofitting of the SUSI
Interface in vehicles without the appropriate decoder.
The 2 wires coming out of the top left have green insulation in other pictures I've seen.
It would appear to be a separate cut down decoder that has only the SUSI output (no motor or function outputs) that is installed in addition to what's there already in your loco.
I've seen it priced at ?19
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Mark (Muns) at GRO lists this Massoth-branded SUSI-to-LGBplug interface lead....
http://www.gardenrailoutlet.co.uk/massoth-susi-lgb-onboard-cable < Link To http://www.gardenrailoutl...susi-lgb-onboard-cable
Would that work for any of the applications we've been discussing, or does the driving decoder have to be specially programmed to produce the SUSI commands (in other words, is it just a hardware connection question or are there software issues as well)?
Jon.
http://www.gardenrailoutlet.co.uk/massoth-susi-lgb-onboard-cable < Link To http://www.gardenrailoutl...susi-lgb-onboard-cable
Would that work for any of the applications we've been discussing, or does the driving decoder have to be specially programmed to produce the SUSI commands (in other words, is it just a hardware connection question or are there software issues as well)?
Jon.
Cliff George
Registered
Zerogee said:
There are software issues as well John. If you read the Massoth S Manual (section 2.3, and 6.8) you will see that it says that the LGB bus does not transmit driving data and that an external pulse generator is required. You would not get the full susi spec just by using the Massoth cable. There seem to be some programming restrictions as well.
The Dietz DCC2SUSI would seem to be a way of getting a full susi interface in an LGB loco. I had a glance at the spec for it and it mentioins handling LGB serial functions so I would think it was ideal. Having said that I've never actually seen one let alone tried one.
Cliff George
Registered
craigwrdouglas said:
Thanks Craig that is useful info, so getting a DCC2SUSI and a Micro X3 is still cheaper than a Massoth S. Of course the Massoth S combines the functionality of the DCC2SUSI and the Micro X3.
Cliff George
Registered
Well it would be good if Massoth did provide a direct plug in connection for their power buffers.Gizzy said:
Did you ever get that Massoth S working on the SUSI bus that you asked about on here Gary?
craigwrdouglas
Registered
Hi Mark, do you think the chip is a version 1 rather than a 1.2? (and how can I tell the difference)muns said:
the chip phographed is a loose one that didn't make it into a loco and is marked eMotion-XL ME011500 3076 Massoth on a sticker attached to one of the terminal blocks.
I can't be sure that the manual (which says 1.2) is the one that came with the chip.
Thanks
Gizzy
A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
With Hardyard currently being located up at the MRC and being dismantled for work to fit some lighting, I haven't got around to it as yet Cliff?Cliff George said:
I'm about to order a Massoth Power Buffer for the Kof Loco, so I'll investigate the problem when I install it....
Cliff George
Registered
Hello Paul,PaulRhB said:
Thanks very much for the input. I thinks Craig has XL decoders, and the picture you kindly showed us has XLS written on it. I don't really see why an XL would need a socket for a speaker, or a pulse generator for that matter (maybe for a smoke generator, but not chuff chuff sounds).
Perhaps the wrong picture got into an XL manual somehow?
Edit: Snap!
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Cliff (sorry, Obersturmbahnfuhrer Von Kliffe....) - the only reason I could see for putting a clock or "chuff" input on a non-sound decoder would be for a pulsed smoke generator..... maybe Massoth put them on even the early decoders to "future-proof" them a bit.....?
Jon.
Edit: snap! again......
Jon.
Edit: snap! again......
Massoth decoder version numbers normally relate to the firmware version and the XLS, LS & S decoders tend to move versions together. The first S decoder was around version 2.6.
I have fired an email to Peter asking what the 2pin connector is for.
I have fired an email to Peter asking what the 2pin connector is for.
craigwrdouglas
Registered
Thanks Markmuns said:
Cliff George
Registered
I recently acquired two locos both of which I would have considered putting a Massoth LS sound decoder in, unfortunately those decoders are currently unavailable (except at a premium price). Many of my locos have already been fitted with Dietz XS SUSI sound modules and a standard driving decoder. Being stingy and being pleased with what I?ve had in the past I decided to try the latest version of the Dietz SUSI sound module the Micro X3. These were purchased as the Uhlenbrock IntelliSound 3 Module 32300 which are the same. They cost me £49.91 each from a UK dealer, fully programmed with the Dietz sound of my choice.
For the driving decoder I went with my usual Lenz Gold Maxi (about £60.00), which I already had, but equally well could have gone with say the Massoth XL at about £55.00.
Compared to getting the Massoth XLS the saving of using the Dietz X3 + Massoth XL is about £60 and compared to the Massoth LS the saving is about £15.00. The Massoth S, also unavailable at the moment, is considerably more expensive (about £50.00 more), than the Micro X3 principle because it has more ways of being connected than just on the SUSI interface. However connecting via SUSI is the optimum way of using these add-on sound decoders so why pay the extra for features that will not be used?
Compared to the previous version the XS the X3 has moved on a little. Functions now go up to F28, and there appear to be more independently controllable sounds (i.e. for my steam versions uncoupler, whistle (long/short), bell, station announce, departure announce, conductor whistle, blowdown, compressor, coal shovelling etc)
There are random sounds while stationary such as coal shovelling, there is break squealing when stopping. I particularly like the load dependent sounds i.e. working hard uphill, or coasting down. There are quite a lot of CVs to influence these type of sounds.
As delivered there are presoldered wires to the SUSI plug, and speaker wires. It is easy to just plug the unit into the SUSI connector on the decoder. The speaker wires have to be connected to an 8ohm speaker, so any Massoth speaker can be used. I recommend soldering the speaker to the speaker sound decoder wires before mounting the decoder, connecting to the driving decoder or mounting the speaker in the loco, it is an easy job. Since I previously purchased my XS modules from a continental G Scale dealer I had the speaker presoldered on for me for nothing, but with the X3 coming from a dealer that did not have a suitable g scale speaker I had to do that job myself. It is not difficult.
The X3 also had additional solder pads where sound related special functions (i.e fire box), speed sensor and power buffer can be connected. I?ve not tried any of these. I already connected a power buffer to the driving decoder which will also keep the SUSI module powered, the locos already had fire box flicker, and SUSI does a good job of passing speed related info so I?ve never felt the need for speed sensors.
Although being a really small unit and easy to find space for in a G scale loco the sound volume is very large, it is at least the equivalent of a Massoth LS, if not more. Sound is set at maximum volume as delivered, which was just too loud for me so I had to program the sound down lower.
As delivered the default sound functions did clash with some of the default function on the decoder (i.e. shunting speed, momentum off etc) but it was a simple matter to move the sounds to different functions by changing a few CVs.
Changing CVs in a SUSI module is really easy, the driving decoder and the SUSI module just seem to be one sound decoder, with the SUSI sound module CVs in the 897+ range. There is no need to preset the sound CVs before installation or worry about having more than one decoder address.
It is possible to load four of your own additional sounds that can be activated by functions into the sound module. However to do this Dietz sound loading module and software are required. I don?t have this and so didn?t try it. I was also advised by the dealer I purchased the sound units from that they had problems getting the additional function sounds loaded, but will be going on a course soon to help them master this feature. The feature is nowhere near as powerful as say ESU have where it is possible to design a complete sound project from your own sound fragments, but it could be used for example as a cheaper way to get some of the Thomas engines to say a few things.
The comprehensive manual for the X3 is available in English from the Uhlenbrock web site.
I am really pleased with these modules and how they sound.
If I?ve missed anything or can help in any way do please ask.
Here is a pic of my install of the micro XS and Lenz Gold Maxi into the new LGB Saxon 1K. The micro X3 is in the black pouch in the foreground, follow the wires from the SUSI connector on the driving decoder to find it (it is small!)
For the driving decoder I went with my usual Lenz Gold Maxi (about £60.00), which I already had, but equally well could have gone with say the Massoth XL at about £55.00.
Compared to getting the Massoth XLS the saving of using the Dietz X3 + Massoth XL is about £60 and compared to the Massoth LS the saving is about £15.00. The Massoth S, also unavailable at the moment, is considerably more expensive (about £50.00 more), than the Micro X3 principle because it has more ways of being connected than just on the SUSI interface. However connecting via SUSI is the optimum way of using these add-on sound decoders so why pay the extra for features that will not be used?
Compared to the previous version the XS the X3 has moved on a little. Functions now go up to F28, and there appear to be more independently controllable sounds (i.e. for my steam versions uncoupler, whistle (long/short), bell, station announce, departure announce, conductor whistle, blowdown, compressor, coal shovelling etc)
There are random sounds while stationary such as coal shovelling, there is break squealing when stopping. I particularly like the load dependent sounds i.e. working hard uphill, or coasting down. There are quite a lot of CVs to influence these type of sounds.
As delivered there are presoldered wires to the SUSI plug, and speaker wires. It is easy to just plug the unit into the SUSI connector on the decoder. The speaker wires have to be connected to an 8ohm speaker, so any Massoth speaker can be used. I recommend soldering the speaker to the speaker sound decoder wires before mounting the decoder, connecting to the driving decoder or mounting the speaker in the loco, it is an easy job. Since I previously purchased my XS modules from a continental G Scale dealer I had the speaker presoldered on for me for nothing, but with the X3 coming from a dealer that did not have a suitable g scale speaker I had to do that job myself. It is not difficult.
The X3 also had additional solder pads where sound related special functions (i.e fire box), speed sensor and power buffer can be connected. I?ve not tried any of these. I already connected a power buffer to the driving decoder which will also keep the SUSI module powered, the locos already had fire box flicker, and SUSI does a good job of passing speed related info so I?ve never felt the need for speed sensors.
Although being a really small unit and easy to find space for in a G scale loco the sound volume is very large, it is at least the equivalent of a Massoth LS, if not more. Sound is set at maximum volume as delivered, which was just too loud for me so I had to program the sound down lower.
As delivered the default sound functions did clash with some of the default function on the decoder (i.e. shunting speed, momentum off etc) but it was a simple matter to move the sounds to different functions by changing a few CVs.
Changing CVs in a SUSI module is really easy, the driving decoder and the SUSI module just seem to be one sound decoder, with the SUSI sound module CVs in the 897+ range. There is no need to preset the sound CVs before installation or worry about having more than one decoder address.
It is possible to load four of your own additional sounds that can be activated by functions into the sound module. However to do this Dietz sound loading module and software are required. I don?t have this and so didn?t try it. I was also advised by the dealer I purchased the sound units from that they had problems getting the additional function sounds loaded, but will be going on a course soon to help them master this feature. The feature is nowhere near as powerful as say ESU have where it is possible to design a complete sound project from your own sound fragments, but it could be used for example as a cheaper way to get some of the Thomas engines to say a few things.
The comprehensive manual for the X3 is available in English from the Uhlenbrock web site.
I am really pleased with these modules and how they sound.
If I?ve missed anything or can help in any way do please ask.
Here is a pic of my install of the micro XS and Lenz Gold Maxi into the new LGB Saxon 1K. The micro X3 is in the black pouch in the foreground, follow the wires from the SUSI connector on the driving decoder to find it (it is small!)