Greg Elmassian
Guest
OK, I think I know that one, Normal for Norfolk?
Caravanning in Norfolk:
Do I get a prize?
Caravanning in Norfolk:
Do I get a prize?
How steep an incline can be
- Thread starter JimmyB
- Start date
Paradise
Registered
You win Greg. Feel better now? 
Although you are comparing light rail passenger service grades and geared locomotive grades to heavy haulage rod engine grades.
I posted it just out of interest and has no bearing on what models can do. I think a mallet going up a 7.5% grade is fairly impressive.
Although you are comparing light rail passenger service grades and geared locomotive grades to heavy haulage rod engine grades.
I posted it just out of interest and has no bearing on what models can do. I think a mallet going up a 7.5% grade is fairly impressive.
Last edited:
Greg Elmassian
Guest
Pretty fun figuring it out... every country has it's expressions... had a hell of a time with Australian ones...
In Barney = In Trouble
Greg
In Barney = In Trouble
Greg
PhilP
G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
OK, I think I know that one, Normal for Norfolk?
Caravanning in Norfolk:
Do I get a prize?
Looks more like Mike Franks place..
Rhinochugger
Retired Oik
OK, I think I know that one, Normal for Norfolk?
Caravanning in Norfolk:
Do I get a prize?
The expression came about when someone revealed the contents of doctors' notes on their patients.
One doctor had written NFN, and when questioned, explained what it meant. The whole country was in uproar, except people from Norfolk
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Apparently doctors and nurses have a lot of codes they write on notes, or at least they did until some people began to realise what they were doing and told them not to.... aside from the aforementioned NFN, there is also TEETH (Tried Everything Else, Try Homeopathy) and T.S.BUNDY (Totally Screwed But Unfortunately Not Dead Yet)...... 
Jon.
Jon.
Gavin Sowry
Garden Railroader and Raconteur
Jimmy, 1:20 may indeed be workable but and there is always a but you may live to regret it later. Alas as I built my line I decided that 1:40 would be the minimum gradient, to my lasting chagrin one bit ended up at 1:30. How did I find this out, well it was the locations that trains always stalled. I just thought it was them giving up after a last gasp on the 1:40 on a 4ft Radius Curve. How wrong could I be? How did it end up as 1:30? That indeed is the right question!
Paradise
Registered
Good comment because it can be somewhat elusive when you slowly lead in to the grade at the bottom then do the same at the top. The steepest part will be the centre which will be steeper than the overall average gradient run. If you always tend to go in the same direction you could make the up grade less than the down grade. Also, depending on layout make the bottom track dip so the one going over will not have to get so high to pass over. If it is one track going over another the bridge or tunnel design can have an influence on the clearance needed too. It is a matter of tweaking everything to get the minimal grade at any one given point which will be the critical point of failure.
Gavin Sowry
Garden Railroader and Raconteur
Talk of dips and humps when changing grades, these are called vertical curves.
Some of us old codgers grownups will remember them when they were parabolic curves based on the sum of change of grade in feet per chain.
Thank goodness for metrication, simplification, and any other dumbing down, they are now a simple measure in metres radius.
Some of us
Thank goodness for metrication, simplification, and any other dumbing down, they are now a simple measure in metres radius.
Gavin Sowry
Garden Railroader and Raconteur
OK Bob, thanks for the like. Was it the quip about grownups, or the fact that you are thoroughly conversant with vertical curve theory?
Paradise
Registered
Which brings us to the next question. What should be the minimum vertical curve? I suspect it depends on locomotive driver wheelbase, it's weight and how stiff the springs are so all driving wheels remain in traction.
Gavin Sowry
Garden Railroader and Raconteur
Yes.
G-force1
Prevarication Rules!
Gavin Sowry
Garden Railroader and Raconteur
Couldn't resist the one liner (one word answer, in fact).
I really think, in our game, we should consider whether the stock will stay coupled when going through a vertical curve, a trough one in particular when using LGB couplers.
Gavin Sowry
Garden Railroader and Raconteur
Suggest you 'further your cultural awareness' * by youtubing the movie 'The Adventures of Barry McKenzie'. Bonza.
* quote from said movie.
beavercreek
Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
On the Beaver Creek Railroad, the steepest part was almost 1:10, peaking after a fairly long stretch of 1:15.
It is now maximum 1:12.
I use multiheading, helper locos and/or customised motorised wagons to pull longish trains.
The motorised wagons enable a single stream loco to pull a train of about six cars as if it was doing it totally on its own.
My Bachmann electric and Accucraft live steam shays are able, on their own, to pull a decent rake of log cars etc up and down the incline without too much stress.
So far, in about twelve years of running, I have only had one stripped gear (really a gear axle-sleeve in a USA Trains F3 which was easy to fix).
Now, there have been a few other incidents due to the tough stems of the fallen leaves from the overhanging bushes getting into the works, but that is another story and not to do with the gradient.
This is where the gradient starts to become its most intense.... no 'extra' slope has been added by camera tilt. The gradient becomes even worse inside the tunnel (the loco is about to enter the tunneland also after it exits but that is obscured by rocks etc.)
The gradient begins to get heavy as the live steam shay digs in. (it was a hot day so not much steam plume to see!)
Pulling heavy aluminium streamline cars up the gradient needs a fair bit of grunt! (F3 ABA)
It is now maximum 1:12.
I use multiheading, helper locos and/or customised motorised wagons to pull longish trains.
The motorised wagons enable a single stream loco to pull a train of about six cars as if it was doing it totally on its own.
My Bachmann electric and Accucraft live steam shays are able, on their own, to pull a decent rake of log cars etc up and down the incline without too much stress.
So far, in about twelve years of running, I have only had one stripped gear (really a gear axle-sleeve in a USA Trains F3 which was easy to fix).
Now, there have been a few other incidents due to the tough stems of the fallen leaves from the overhanging bushes getting into the works, but that is another story and not to do with the gradient.
This is where the gradient starts to become its most intense.... no 'extra' slope has been added by camera tilt. The gradient becomes even worse inside the tunnel (the loco is about to enter the tunneland also after it exits but that is obscured by rocks etc.)
The gradient begins to get heavy as the live steam shay digs in. (it was a hot day so not much steam plume to see!)
Pulling heavy aluminium streamline cars up the gradient needs a fair bit of grunt! (F3 ABA)
Last edited:
Greg Elmassian
Guest
but but but....
10 degrees is not 1 in 10
10 degrees is 17.6% or about 1 in 5.6
calculator for degrees to percent: https://rechneronline.de/winkel/percent.php
Also in your illustration, that red line cuts into the sideframes of the diesel (above railhead), but is below the railhead of the box car.
I'd guess you were closer to 8 degrees, which is about 12%
Greg
10 degrees is not 1 in 10
10 degrees is 17.6% or about 1 in 5.6
calculator for degrees to percent: https://rechneronline.de/winkel/percent.php
Also in your illustration, that red line cuts into the sideframes of the diesel (above railhead), but is below the railhead of the box car.
I'd guess you were closer to 8 degrees, which is about 12%
Greg