Important notice re: certifying live-steam gas tanks testing.

If you are a member of the g scale society, and your loco is made by a manufacturer who has tested it to the standard require . There is no need to 're test the boiler or gas tank .the insurance dose not require it for our small boilers .
 
Re: My question to you is then: Who wants to see the certificate? And why?

A recent exhibition manager took the 16mm association guidelines as his reference and wanted to see my boiler certificates. I therefore turned down the invitation. As said before, it's his perogative.
 
Unfortunately, this is the world we live in. Health and Safety is now a huge industry, probably bigger and more bureaucratic than most (like the civil service). Still better safe than sorry.
 
Well we better ban baths and stairs in houses as well then, because they cause far more injuries and even deaths than most other things in every day life. Health and Safety does have place, but at a sensible, recognisable level, and not aimed at 'soft' targets.
 
5 pepole a year die standing up trying to put on there underwear ..and fall over and kill them selves...shall we ban underwear
 
You mean only the ugly survive!!!
 
I would have thought that, as regards boilers, the "blow-off" pressure of the safety valve is probably the most important safety factor. Many boiler explosions in the past were down to tampering with the said valve.

As for gas tanks, in the world of full size, our bulk tank at home holds 1400 litres (including the "boil-off" space) of propane. Tested when made and left to its' own devices ever since installation 15 years ago - even though there is an annual "Hire & Maintenance" charge.

Health and Safety regulations are formulated to HELP prevent accidents but they do NOT eliminate them! What the Regulations really do is help apportion blame and responsibility. Having endured the pedanticism of Insurance Inspectors, the helpfulness of the former Railway Inspectorate, and the crassness of the Mines Inspectorate, you have to Kowtow to all if you cannot reason with them.
 
I'm lucky, in a way, as I'm a member of a society that runs 7 1/4" NG trains for the public to enjoy - albeit once a month. As such, we have four or five qualified boiler examiners who provide this service to others in the area. However, as far as we are concerned, the axe has already fallen, and I won't be allowed to run my little trains on my own society 45mm gauge track unless I have shown the society committee safety rep the relevant certificate, and I have six live steam locos, two of which are alcohon/ethanol fired.

I'll be taking some of them over for certification next Tuesday.

I STILL feel that the whole business is a cure for which there is no disease, and a huge over-compensation for current EU H&S regulations. I can also see, from the posts here so far, that the future is going to see less and less participation of live-steamers at local shows - usually showcasing models with a view to getting people interested. With the PITA legislation now in force, how long will it be before the sheer imposition of these new and, IMO, unnecessary, rules kills off our hobby, or relegates it to furtive backyard running?

History is on our side, with a total lack of ANY history of blown-up boilers in the last forty years of the 16mm Association's existence. I've NEVER seen a boiler incident, nor, for that matter, a gas-tank issue.

tac
 
tac foley said:
I'm lucky, in a way, as I'm a member of a society that runs 7 1/4" NG trains for the public to enjoy - albeit once a month. As such, we have four or five qualified boiler examiners who provide this service to others in the area. However, as far as we are concerned, the axe has already fallen, and I won't be allowed to run my little trains on my own society 45mm gauge track unless I have shown the society committee safety rep the relevant certificate, and I have six live steam locos, two of which are alcohon/ethanol fired.

I'll be taking some of them over for certification next Tuesday.

I STILL feel that the whole business is a cure for which there is no disease, and a huge over-compensation for current EU H&S regulations. I can also see, from the posts here so far, that the future is going to see less and less participation of live-steamers at local shows - usually showcasing models with a view to getting people interested. With the PITA legislation now in force, how long will it be before the sheer imposition of these new and, IMO, unnecessary, rules kills off our hobby, or relegates it to furtive backyard running?

History is on our side, with a total lack of ANY history of blown-up boilers in the last forty years of the 16mm Association's existence. I've NEVER seen a boiler incident, nor, for that matter, a gas-tank issue.

tac
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One thing I cant see is any of our three boiler inspectors standing about all day testing all my boilers in one go (or me or that matter). The big one takes almost an hour to get to blowing off, and about the same to run down. The next about 40 mins. each way. The next two I've never steamed yet, but I suspect a good half hour each, each way. That doesn't include hydros either. Then the little ones, which at least you can just swich the gas off and let them cool on their own, but easily a full day. Which means different days for different locos, and being able to get an available boiler inspector, remembering that everybody (about 90) in the club is in the same boat. As I said it's already more effort than it's worth. The system will be overloaded. Perhaps that is the ploy, we should swamp it, so they cant cope, then stand back and see what happens!
 
G-force1 said:
One thing I cant see is any of our three boiler inspectors standing about all day testing all my boilers in one go (or me or that matter). The big one takes almost an hour to get to blowing off, and about the same to run down. The next about 40 mins. each way. The next two I've never steamed yet, but I suspect a good half hour each, each way. That doesn't include hydros either. Then the little ones, which at least you can just swich the gas off and let them cool on their own, but easily a full day. Which means different days for different locos, and being able to get an available boiler inspector, remembering that everybody (about 90) in the club is in the same boat. As I said it's already more effort than it's worth. The system will be overloaded. Perhaps that is the ploy, we should swamp it, so they cant cope, then stand back and see what happens!
Click to expand...

That's easy..
We are all so risk-averse, and everyone fears litigation, that those in charge of clubs etc. will just ban everybody from doing anything..
:banghead::(:(:banghead:
 
G-force1 said:
One thing I cant see is any of our three boiler inspectors standing about all day testing all my boilers in one go (or me or that matter). The big one takes almost an hour to get to blowing off, and about the same to run down. The next about 40 mins. each way. The next two I've never steamed yet, but I suspect a good half hour each, each way. That doesn't include hydros either. Then the little ones, which at least you can just swich the gas off and let them cool on their own, but easily a full day. Which means different days for different locos, and being able to get an available boiler inspector, remembering that everybody (about 90) in the club is in the same boat. As I said it's already more effort than it's worth. The system will be overloaded. Perhaps that is the ploy, we should swamp it, so they cant cope, then stand back and see what happens!
Click to expand...

Like it or don't it's something you are going to have to work with, just like everybody else who boils water to run trains, or traction engines, or stationary engines - regardless of size. You are talking as though your locos have never been tested before. I'm sure you and the 89 members of your club will sort it out somehow - it's that, or go over to electric or i/c drive.

Looks like those boiler testers in your vicinity are going to be pretty busy.

tac
 
Or not.. depending on which society your in...
 
PhilP said:
That's easy..
We are all so risk-averse, and everyone fears litigation, that those in charge of clubs etc. will just ban everybody from doing anything..
:banghead::(:(:banghead:
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with the requirement that boilers/gas tanks need to be tested, even if they are under 3 bar/litre although personally I don't think it is necessary as I have confidence in their construction and they are fitted with safety valves and pressure gauges. I think we are only concerned here with G scale/16mm locos from the likes of Roundhouse and Accucraft etc. I only have Roundhouse locos and they confirm they have always tested at manufacture. Recent models from them come with a boiler/gas tank certificate that has a serial number on it matching a number marked on the boiler/gas tank, so all is well. The problem created by the new codes is for older (Roundhouse) locos where although Roundhouse still tested the boilers/gas tanks at manufacture as now, they did not serial number them and they did not issue a corresponding paper certificate. Rather than accepting these boilers/tanks have been tested, and accepting proof of purchase, the codes want you to re-test. To do this the loco must be dismantled as the boiler needs to be visually inspected and marked with identifying number, this can't be done without removing the boiler, the same for the gas tank. 3 weeks ago I contacted my local 16mm tester as per the list on the 16mm website, but I have not had a response to date. I don't know if he can test gas tanks and if he charges, but will update post if I hear. As I am confident in Roundhouse testing at manufacture, I am not going to dismantle and re-test all my older locos, but will confine my activities to the garden with friends and family.
 
That is exactly what I do now. The small stuff hasn't been tested, and wont be. Of the other gauges the 7 1/4" I have no choice, or not run, though one is currently mothballed, the stationary and the 3 1/2" will be shelf queens forever more.

As I said in a previous post, we policed completely successfully ourselves for over 90 years. What happened?
 
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