LGB 70580 starter set Wangerooge diesel - a review

[playmofire]

Thank you, whatlep, for a very interesting review. I looked up Wangerooge on google and it certainly looks a very interesting railway (and not in Australia, as the name possible suggests!)

On the question of detail and exact replication of the prototype, I agree with you - in the end, if you like what you see and want it, then buy it and run it. 1:76 scale model bus collectors seem to be the most obsessive people on detail if such magazines as Model Collector were anything to go by several years ago, with quibbles over body stripes to the millimetre. None of them appeared to realise that, of course, any scale model is non-prototypical in a major aspect, the thickness of the material used.

The only thing missing are the luggage carts. Has anyone any suggestions.

By "the luggage carts", if you mean the pallets, then Playmobil do a quite decent job in various colours.

You can see one here and they can be bought separately through Playmobil Direct Service:

http://playmodb.org/cgi-bin/showinv.pl?setnum=4474

 

[dutchelm]

The only thing missing are the luggage carts. Has anyone any suggestions.

By "the luggage carts", if you mean the pallets, then Playmobil do a quite decent job in various colours.

The loads on the flat wagons are closed containers on wheels. They can be seen on some of the internet pictures.

 

[playmofire]

The only thing missing are the luggage carts. Has anyone any suggestions.

By "the luggage carts", if you mean the pallets, then Playmobil do a quite decent job in various colours.

The loads on the flat wagons are closed containers on wheels. They can be seen on some of the internet pictures.

Ah, right. I had been looking at the loads on the trucks in real life.

 

[Rob s]

Wonder if uk retailers will split the set? Great review thank you. At that price I may end up getting it instead of an accucraft shunter.

Hornbeam

I can def say a big yes to that took a ride out to my local model
shop today, http://www.back2bay6.net/90270/info.php?p=7&cat=345957
to pick up a couple of items from his 'G Scale Clearance and Split Sets Sales'
and another box of metal wheels,also on offer.

Just knew that cup of coffee was gonna be expensive :crying::crying:

Came away with a really nice Wangerooge Diesel i didn't even know i wanted
best of all cheaper than Model land and Local, so if it goes wrong, i take it
back.

He's got the whole set on offer as well £330, and a whole load of Stainz
starter sets.

Not had chance to [strike]play[/strike] test it yet, but have seen it run on B2B6's test
track and it crawl round like a trooper

[No connection just a very happy customer]

 

[whatlep]

A small update to my review, a few months on.

Running the diesel on my indoor layout this winter, I noticed that running forwards around right-hand R1 curves (or backward on left-hand R1s) the loco stuttered and derailed every time. This problem hadn't shown itself on the outside line.

At first I assumed that the quartering was out, but after a LOT of trial and error, it became clear that the springing on the central axle was far too strong. Effectively the excess down force was pushing the front of the loco up and off the track.

The offending item is this one:

The solution is to extract the spring from the gearbox and gently bend it until the pressure is reduced. I found that if the chassis is placed on the rails without the body, a good working level is reached when the central axle pushes the front wheels off the track by no more than 2mm. Previously, the lift on my loco was about 5mm. Bending the spring needs care and it's a bit trial and error. Getting the spring in and out of the gearbox is also a bit of a pain as everything has to be disassembled, but it can be done without major trauma if you work slowly and methodically.

I'm afraid that I have to chalk this one up to poor quality control at Marklin's factory. Even a cursory run in each direction around an R1 circle should have revealed the problem. From other posts in the last few days, it sounds like at least another couple of Wangerooge owners may have the same problem.

 

[jameshilton]

Peter - could you add the axle spacing dimensions to this post, I think it might be useful for scratch/kit bashers - mines buried under my son's cot otherwise I'd have added them myself!

 

[whatlep]

Peter - could you add the axle spacing dimensions to this post, I think it might be useful for scratch/kit bashers - mines buried under my son's cot otherwise I'd have added them myself!

Front axle to centre axle = 44mm
Centre axle to rear axle = 53mm
Rear axle to crank axle = 31mm

 

[Rhinochugger]

Oh well, cracking review as usual Peter but could we use this thread to nail a couple of myths.

LGB's quality control is not perfect.

Just because a product is made in China (I know this one was Hungary but the prejudiced question gets asked every time) does not make it inferior (LGB simply did not have the skills to manage overseas outsourcing). There are quite a number of people on this forum with good quality Aristocraft and Accucraft (US) locos and rolling stock, all of excellent quality and reliability and all made in China.

 

[whatlep]

I've no idea where the item was made. There's no country of origin stated on the loco or in the paperwork. However, I agree with your point that items made in China can be perfectly reliable. All the Bachmann OO gauge stuff made there that I have has been top notch.

Quality control is down to the individuals doing it and the underlying system of checks, not the location. I write as former European Quality Assurance manager for a multinational company. My recent Marklin items - and I think we should say Marklin, not LGB - have been of variable standards. This one was not good in respect of the internal wiring (see earlier post), the front coupler and the springing/ ride issue. On the other hand my two cheapo starter set Stainzes have been just fine in terms of QA and a bargain at 90 Euros (from Germany).

P.S. Since writing the original review the asking price for this loco at Modell-land in Germany has been reduced to Euros 169.99 + 18 P&P. Say GBP157 at January 2013 prices. Bargain!

 

[jameshilton]

That is an excellent price! Thanks for the dimensions too Peter

 

[Rhinochugger]

My recent Marklin items - and I think we should say Marklin, not LGB - have been of variable standards.

Yes, however, my understanding is that it says LGB on the box, and there is another thread running that seems to imply that LGB has perfect Quality Control - with the innuendo that no other manufacturer has - something that I find a trifle irritating.

Generally on this forum there is an acceptance of a wide approach to garden railways, and an enjoyment of anything that runs in the garden (on rails) and long may that continue, irrespective of the label on the box.

 

[Zerogee]

My recent Marklin items - and I think we should say Marklin, not LGB - have been of variable standards.

Yes, however, my understanding is that it says LGB on the box, and there is another thread running that seems to imply that LGB has perfect Quality Control - with the innuendo that no other manufacturer has - something that I find a trifle irritating.

Generally on this forum there is an acceptance of a wide approach to garden railways, and an enjoyment of anything that runs in the garden (on rails) and long may that continue, irrespective of the label on the box.

Well said, Ian - we should all liberally apply rule 8 and just enjoy our hobby. As to irritants, if you can't ignore them then I'd put some cream on them.....

Jon.

 

[whatlep]

My recent Marklin items - and I think we should say Marklin, not LGB - have been of variable standards.

Yes, however, my understanding is that it says LGB on the box, and there is another thread running that seems to imply that LGB has perfect Quality Control - with the innuendo that no other manufacturer has - something that I find a trifle irritating.

Generally on this forum there is an acceptance of a wide approach to garden railways, and an enjoyment of anything that runs in the garden (on rails) and long may that continue, irrespective of the label on the box.

Ian - I agree entirely.

 

[Rob s]

Peter - thanks for the update on this thread - did start to read it the first time round but went else where when you did the batery conversion section, and when i came back to read it properly it had already been adulterated by the 'mines beter than yours' parties etc so never got round to reading it through.

Have read through properly this time as i have a 'wonkyroo' so i actually missed the bit about the lack of grease.

As i posted the one i bought was the same - ie split from a set - it ran absolutly perfect right from the get go, ran it in on rollers - transfered to track ran on R2 no added loads
then light load etc etc - still as smoth as a peach - even at what would be for me exception loads.

Have only run sparingly since - try to run every loco on a rotation so they only get may be 1-2hours run time every 2-3 weeks.

Last time out noticed what appeared to be some hesitancy on curves in a couple of places, as it was late i put it down to dirty track or pckup/wheels needing a clean.

After reading the other tread started to wonder ??, so brought it in late last night.
Never been open before, now it has - grease is fine - pick up/wheels fine - its was not Coging from new and had never been pulled apart - its not coging now.

Checked the spring and the centre wheels its not pushing down or lifting front or rear and has never de railed.

Just re-ran it on test rollers and at low speed get the same result forward or back word, a distinct hesitancy or pulseing type drive - At this point SWMBO walked in and spotted it immediatley - oooh new loco she said - err no dear had it a while.

Bummer busted - it 'had' been under the radar so to speak
BUT she did also ask
'Why are the lights dimming slightly as the wheels go round'
Dooh what do they know any way
Cchecked my self and b****R me shes right
the lights dim slightly ( at slow speed they are dim to start with on DC) for a split second on each rotation.

Not got a clue what this means - any ideas folks - where to start looking ????

 

[whatlep]

Just re-ran it on test rollers and at low speed get the same result forward or back word, a distinct hesitancy or pulseing type drive - At this point SWMBO walked in and spotted it immediatley - oooh new loco she said - err no dear had it a while.

Bummer busted - it 'had' been under the radar so to speak
BUT she did also ask
'Why are the lights dimming slightly as the wheels go round'
Dooh what do they know any way
Cchecked my self and b****R me shes right
the lights dim slightly ( at slow speed they are dim to start with on DC) for a split second on each rotation.

Not got a clue what this means - any ideas folks - where to start looking ????

From your description, it seems that the problem is linked to wheel position, so I think I'd check you're getting reliable pickup from at least 1 contact point each side. Carefully open up the underside of the gearbox (5 screws) and check that all the wheel/ skate contacts on each side are making contact with the relevant pin (the inner pair) which come through from the other side at one end of the gearbox. Look for any grease or other muck on the contact strips which link the contacts to the pin, the pin itself and the six carbon pickups. Oh and do check that the strips are the correct way round! Post 2, pictures 3/4 shows the correct alignment.

 

[Rob s]

Just re-ran it on test rollers and at low speed get the same result forward or back word, a distinct hesitancy or pulseing type drive - At this point SWMBO walked in and spotted it immediatley - oooh new loco she said - err no dear had it a while.

Bummer busted - it 'had' been under the radar so to speak
BUT she did also ask
'Why are the lights dimming slightly as the wheels go round'
Dooh what do they know any way
Cchecked my self and b****R me shes right
the lights dim slightly ( at slow speed they are dim to start with on DC) for a split second on each rotation.

Not got a clue what this means - any ideas folks - where to start looking ????

From your description, it seems that the problem is linked to wheel position, so I think I'd check you're getting reliable pickup from at least 1 contact point each side. Carefully open up the underside of the gearbox (5 screws) and check that all the wheel/ skate contacts on each side are making contact with the relevant pin (the inner pair) which come through from the other side at one end of the gearbox. Look for any grease or other muck on the contact strips which link the contacts to the pin, the pin itself and the six carbon pickups. Oh and do check that the strips are the correct way round! Post 2, pictures 3/4 shows the correct alignment.

Sound a good place to start - too late now - and i think this is going to require some quiet time for a proper clean and check - so will have to wait till the week end.
Thanks for the heads up Peter.

 

[jameshilton]

I noticed that you can also get the wheels rubbing slightly on the dummy outside frame which causes a light 'click' noise on rotation - this was on R1 curves and not evident on the garden line.

 

[dunnyrail]

I have to say that I agree with Woderwick re the Skrew Heads. This is a Servce Issue that I do find acceptable. However a simple fix for continued access is to fill the gap with Blue Tack and paint the complete skrew (very lightly) with Black Matt Paint.

On the plus side and there are quite a few with these beasties of varying vintage now. It s a superb runner and mine fails to hesitate even on R5 points. Something that sadly Corpets fail on without perfect cleaning of the Track.

JonD

 

[Rhinochugger]

I feel better now

 

[Madman]

I have the red version that I purchased new way back in ?.. I love the looks of it and it does perform nicely. That said, I have one grade in my railway that causes it to slip. My little Bachmann Davenports have no trouble with trains twice as heavy, nor do my Stainzes and any other four wheeled locos, with the exception of the LGB 2090 locos which could do with more weight. The Wangerooge loco is a heavy loco though, so I am guessing it has to do with the six drivers. Possibly they are not all making good traction on slightly uneven track.