LGB new to this DCC help?

[craigwrdouglas2]

Oh also is that what the back EMF does ? As I believe 55021 has this back EMF function which it says helps on dirty tracks?

Back EMF is the load compensation system - essentially if you set the speed at 3, then the chip monitors the motor and attempts to keep it going at that speed even if it is going uphill or round twisty track or if the train is heavy. It's very useful for outdoors where the garden has natural gradients.

 

[pugwash]

I assume I just click on his link from your mail.

No, go to the options bar at the top of the page and on the right hand side you will see your name, an envelope, a bell and the search tool. Click on the envelope to open 'direct messages' and then it is like an email. As you start typing the name of the recipient you will get a dropdown list of names and you can click on the one you want. Put in the title then write your text then press send.

is there a way to connect him to this thread to help him see.

Yes, as I have done by putting in his name he will see at his next visit that he has been mentioned and will probably want to know why so will come and take a look.
To see how to put in a member's name see the 'Help required, I give up, please help me' section and there I have put an explanation of 'How to use the @ function' which when used notifies the member that they have been mentioned.

 

[craigwrdouglas2]

Philip's point about default voltages is important - LGB 55021 has defaults as 5v in line with the parts in the loco.

the Massoth L has default voltages at 18v for these - there are 2 ways to resolve this - 1 lower the voltages through the CVs or 2 replace the 5V parts with their 18V counterparts - i.e. brighter lights or more powerful smoke unit.

 

[walkerart]

M+, M- Motor 'plus' and Motor 'minus'.
T+! T Track 'positive' and Track 'negative'. - But it doesn't matter which way round these two go..

The 55021 decoder (and Massoth equivalent) has pins on the board, so it just plugs-in to the loco. - You would de-solder (or snip-off, close to the board).
Then you 'open' that set of DIP switches. - Dual Inline Package = DIP.

We love our TLA's! - Three Letter Acronyms.

You will probably enjoy the 'buzz' of the Llangollen show, and there is the Llangollen Railway, as well.

I will be there trading (RC Trains) so if you do go, fight your way through the scrum, and say 'hello'.

View attachment 341442
PhilP.

This great information Phil.
I once took my narrow boat to Llangollen “the black dog” what a laugh.
My whole family were railways my grandfather was a driver at LNER.

If you don’t mind I would love to come and meet you at the show.

I think I will wait on any moves re decoders until we meet.

And yes Acronyms seem to be the bit to learn
But NASA 1968 were the same ..... will tell you a funny story of this when we meet.

CW

 

[walkerart]

Hi Chris and welcome to the funny farm, or forum as we like to call it.
I expect the digital whizzes will help you out but for that connecter plug I had one between a loco & tender which broke off just as yours has. The part is readily available and the fitting is easy, the connecter has teeth which go through the insulation of the wire and make contact with the core - no soldering! I think the wires snap off where they enter the plug due to being constantly flexed, they certainly were on my Nicki & Frank S.

Hi Pugwash I will get the loco back and give it a go. It must be possible... the train dude it’s with isn’t sure may be his age but I fancy giving it a go.

 

[muns]

You know what your iPad thought is a really good point. One I hadn’t thought about. But yes without a button you would spend a lot of time looking the screen.
Also given I got a MTS for so little I may as well get going and learn on that for now.
I’m actually really excited to get going as even in analog we got a lot of joy seeing our train potter around the garden. So digital even basic will be a great improvement particularly with carriage lights working better.
So I have a chap who has a decoder 55021 that may be a good start. And although it won’t do sound I can look at that later. It’s £85 not sure if that’s a good price as I couldn’t see any others on line.
Love your screen point that’s made my mind up thanks

£85 for a 55021 - dont do it.

You can get the Massoth equivalent - Massoth Emotion L (8154001) decoder for £62 from Garten Bahn Supplies (Gartenbahn Supplies - Massoth Products) or £75 from P&S Hobbies.

If you get an eMotion L decoder, ask the supplier to lower the light and smoke outputs to 5v for you and to change the Address (from 3) to the number you require (1-22 on the MTS system).

 

[walkerart]

Back EMF is the load compensation system - essentially if you set the speed at 3, then the chip monitors the motor and attempts to keep it going at that speed even if it is going uphill or round twisty track or if the train is heavy. It's very useful for outdoors where the garden has natural gradients.

Ok that’s great ….. and to the point of gradients are they best avoided

Back EMF is the load compensation system - essentially if you set the speed at 3, then the chip monitors the motor and attempts to keep it going at that speed even if it is going uphill or round twisty track or if the train is heavy. It's very useful for outdoors where the garden has natural gradients.

ah ok well that’s good. Talking of inclines are they best avoided or ok as I have a four inch or 100mm drop from my new tiles to the gravel (pictured below) or I can trestle build the track like in old westerns. Not too bothered as buildings could be lower than the track and a grit ramp up for where the station is to be ?

 

[walkerart]

Ok that’s great ….. and to the point of gradients are they best avoided

ah ok well that’s good. Talking of inclines are they best avoided or ok as I have a four inch or 100mm drop from my new tiles to the gravel (pictured below) or I can trestle build the track like in old westerns. Not too bothered as buildings could be lower than the track and a grit ramp up for where the station is to be ? View attachment 341457

Also is back EMF that helps if your track is slightly dirty …

 

[walkerart]

£85 for a 55021 - dont do it.

You can get the Massoth equivalent - Massoth Emotion L (8154001) decoder for £62 from Garten Bahn Supplies (Gartenbahn Supplies - Massoth Products) or £75 from P&S Hobbies.

If you get an eMotion L decoder, ask the supplier to lower the light and smoke outputs to 5v for you and to change the Address (from 3) to the number you require (1-22 on the MTS system).

Great info Muns …. So the place I buy this will make the alteration prior to sending if requested ? That’s great
Maybe another dumb question does eMotion L have an out put to add sound at a later date or do I park that up for now?
Sounds like a better price definitely
So will ask Dave to put it back together and look at your supply place then find someone a little bit more experienced to put it in.

 

[walkerart]

£85 for a 55021 - dont do it.

You can get the Massoth equivalent - Massoth Emotion L (8154001) decoder for £62 from Garten Bahn Supplies (Gartenbahn Supplies - Massoth Products) or £75 from P&S Hobbies.

If you get an eMotion L decoder, ask the supplier to lower the light and smoke outputs to 5v for you and to change the Address (from 3) to the number you require (1-22 on the MTS system).

Wow the Massoth range seems great and very clear.
I will give them a call. Thanks it’s certainly the way to go.
Still not very good on the different power requirements ie : 1.5 v 1.9v etc
I assume it relates to the power your loco needs some being two motor and much bigger.
On DCc the track gives 5v is that right and the decoder allows the right power from this to the motor and cv’s in the loco ?
So spare power left at the track is then used by the other loco or turnout bits you add.

 

[Gizzy]

Wow the Massoth range seems great and very clear.
I will give them a call. Thanks it’s certainly the way to go.

On DCc the track gives 5v is that right and the decoder allows the right power from this to the motor and cv’s in the loco ?
So spare power left at the track is then used by the other loco or turnout bits you add.

On DCC the track VOLTAGE is between 18-24 volts, which you set on your Central Station.

It is the DCC chip inside the loco that regulates the voltage to the motor, lights and smoke generator....

 

[walkerart]

On DCC the track VOLTAGE is between 18-24 volts, which you set on your Central Station.

It is the DCC chip inside the loco that regulates the voltage to the motor, lights and smoke generator....

Ah ok so there is a lot of spare power at the track. So my loco uses 5v ? So when it’s running lights on … there would be 13v spare to use in other places.

 

[Gizzy]

Ah ok so there is a lot of spare power at the track. So my loco uses 5v ? So when it’s running lights on … there would be 13v spare to use in other places.

You are confusing power and voltage. They are different things.

The DCC chip firstly controls the voltage to the motor. This can be from 0 to 18-24 volts dependant on the speed you set on the controls.

The chip will also set the required voltage to your lights, sound card and smoke generator if required. Lights are usually 5 or 18 Volts. This value is set by the relevant CVs. Smoke is usually 5 or 18 voltage but could be any voltage between depending on the manufacturer. Again this is set by CV.

A sound card will probably require 5 Volts to run.

Because with DCC, the track voltage is around 18-24 volts, your loco is always on, so although it may not be moving because the motor volts are zero, the lights, sound and smoke will get the required voltage to operate.

I hope this helps you understand what happens with a DCC locomotive....

 

[craigwrdouglas2]

Also is back EMF that helps if your track is slightly dirty …

No that would be a power buffer or capacitor - the massoth ones are covered here https://www.massoth.de/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/991117_BDA_Powercaps_240921.pdf

The capacitors charge when the track is clean then discharge when the track is dirty to cover the gap in power coverage.

 

[walkerart]

You are confusing power and voltage. They are different things.

The DCC chip firstly controls the voltage to the motor. This can be from 0 to 18-24 volts dependant on the speed you set on the controls.

The chip will also set the required voltage to your lights, sound card and smoke generator if required. Lights are usually 5 or 18 Volts. This value is set by the relevant CVs. Smoke is usually 5 or 18 voltage but could be any voltage between depending on the manufacturer. Again this is set by CV.

A sound card will probably require 5 Volts to run.

Because with DCC, the track voltage is around 18-24 volts, your loco is always on, so although it may not be moving because the motor volts are zero, the lights, sound and smoke will get the required voltage to operate.

I hope this helps you understand what happens with a DCC locomotive....

Ok thanks I will look it up and read never been an electrical minded person but good at design

 

[walkerart]

Well chaps Mr James Gartenbahn Supplies - Massoth Products
Thank you Muns what a dude.
Totally cleared up my dumb questions with all your help.
So just agreed the L at £62 brilliant what a helpful chap. It will plug in straight in and I’m going to leave sound for now as that can be my next loco which hopefully will be a nicer item.
James can set the cv powers for the lights and smoke.
He also mentioned I can add a buffer for £30 which will power it past any dirty bits of track? Won’t do it just now until my track is back up.
The plug wire between the loco and tender which is damaged as I put in a previous photo. One of you helpful chaps mentioned I maybe able to repair as it’s a click crimp plug. So I will try but equally as you also mentioned it’s not a garden railways part. James also said this and so I will search online from the part number and see if I can find one.
I’m guessing of the five wires in the plug only two are used? One for the light on the tender and one for a possible sound unit, or maybe two per item if there is a return.

The Massoth decoder to add sound is £165 so I’m going to leave it for now.

He also mentioned Massoth have more of a following.
Also that they are phasing out seperate sound decoders. I guess it’s as the newer market has locos with all onboard already.

Also that their decoder that has four outlets for points can be used for lights in buildings. So I guess that’s my new search.

So far so good. Because of you chaps.

 

[walkerart]

No that would be a power buffer or capacitor - the massoth ones are covered here https://www.massoth.de/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/991117_BDA_Powercaps_240921.pdf

The capacitors charge when the track is clean then discharge when the track is dirty to cover the gap in power coverage.

Hi Craig thanks spoke to James today at Gartenbahn Supplies - Massoth Products

So these buffers go in the loco. Do you think they would fit or maybe in the tender. Is worth doing this from the get go at £30 fairly cheap

 

[walkerart]

On DCC the track VOLTAGE is between 18-24 volts, which you set on your Central Station.

It is the DCC chip inside the loco that regulates the voltage to the motor, lights and smoke generator....

Hey Gizzy is the motor a higher voltage than the light and smoke?

 

[Gizzy]

Hey Gizzy is the motor a higher voltage than the light and smoke?

Yes, as I said, up to 18-24 volts depending on the setting of your Central Station.

My Massoth 1200Z is set for 24V max voltage, but I could set it to 18V....

 

[craigwrdouglas2]

Hi Craig thanks spoke to James today at Gartenbahn Supplies - Massoth Products

So these buffers go in the loco. Do you think they would fit or maybe in the tender. Is worth doing this from the get go at £30 fairly cheap

I don't know that particular locomotive, but it has a big round boiler so I presume there would be space for a power buffer.