Live Steam Accucraft 2 cyl shay and Climax bogies very stiff springs

[beavercreek]

Met Graham from Accucraft at the LLanfair show and he suggested chamfering (on a lathe) the rear of the head of the bogie mounting bolt.
This would still allow the bolt to be tight without binding the rotational movement and also to allow a bit of 'pitch and yaw'.
Sounds a good idea but there is not much head depth to play with.....

I was wondering if just replacing the bolt with a countersunk type would do the same thing.
Does anyone know the size of the bogie mounting bolts on accucraft geared locos? The bolt is shorter on the Climax than the shays but their gauge looks the same...

 

[maxi-model]

With the weight of the loco bearing down on both the flat plates on the bogie and the bolster would that be of much assistance ? Max

 

[beavercreek]

With the weight of the loco bearing down on both the flat plates on the bogie and the bolster would that be of much assistance ? Max

mmmmmm yeah, possibly not, as you say...... really any 'pitch and yaw allowance should be between the bogie and bolster...but it is a short bolt (due to the central steel gear rod) so no extra to allow for the insertion of a 'rocker' (domed washer or suchlike).
Also it presently fits tight into the bolster but still allows the bogie to rotate....don't want to mess with that.

I will try the springs first.... I have found a couple of companies online that do a wide selection of spring weights, sizes and gauges at a reasonable price.

If the springs do not change the behaviour then it will be finding a bolt of the correct size and pitch, that is just long enough to allow a domed washer to be inserted between the bogie and bolster but is still secure........... thus my asking if anyone knows the gauge and pitch of the Accy bolt.

 

[maxi-model]

If you use a longer bolt could you not interpose a spring between the underside of the bolt and the underside of the crossbar on the bogie ? This is a similar arrangement to that on the AMS J&S cars, Not sure if having driven wheels would not suit this arrangement due to torque reactions in the driveshafts and gear driven axles. Ask Accucraft what threads they use. Max

 

[Rhinochugger]

With the weight of the loco bearing down on both the flat plates on the bogie and the bolster would that be of much assistance ? Max

It would do the trick, IMHO, and allow the bogie to 'rock and roll' with the track - or, as the erudite would have it, pitch and yaw assuming that the bogie / chassis faces are not plate to plate across the width of the loco

 

[beavercreek]

If you use a longer bolt could you not interpose a spring between the underside of the bolt and the underside of the crossbar on the bogie ? This is a similar arrangement to that on the AMS J&S cars, Not sure if having driven wheels would not suit this arrangement due to torque reactions in the driveshafts and gear driven axles. Ask Accucraft what threads they use. Max

There is little room between the head of the bolt and the stainless steel rod that connects the axle gear system. This is why Accucraft used a much shorter bolt than on the shays and also no room for a spring.
If there had been room I would have got a couple of the Shay bolts to do that very same thing.

here is the photo again

 

[maxi-model]

Ahhh ! Should have taken another look at the Climax. Sorry. Spring washer ? Max

 

[beavercreek]

It would do the trick, IMHO, and allow the bogie to 'rock and roll' with the track - or, as the erudite would have it, pitch and yaw assuming that the bogie / chassis faces are not plate to plate across the width of the loco

Unfortunately it is a fairly large plate to plate situation :-(

 

[Rhinochugger]

I think you're going to have to go with trial and error, using methods that are not reversible.

You're early idea of a washer between bogie and chassis is a possibility - my mind is wandering in the direction of a plate washer for one bogie, and the smallest diameter washer that you can find for the other bogie both being the same thickness (ish).

There has to be a solution

 

[beavercreek]

I think you're going to have to go with trial and error, using methods that are not reversible.

There has to be a solution

Try replacement springs first
Try domed washers second
Try lump hammer third...............

 

[Rhinochugger]

Try replacement springs first
Try domed washers second
Try lump hammer third...............

I think I mentioned something about solutions that were potentially reversible I can't say that I've seen Mr Lumphammer operate in reverse gear

......on the other hand, someone may be able to prove me wrong

 

[beavercreek]

I can't say that I've seen Mr Lumphammer operate in reverse gear

......on the other hand, someone may be able to prove me wrong

I will use my special bending space and time lumphammer..... some large eyed chap, very tall with extremely long and thin limbs left it in my garage one evening.
He just appeared when I was extremely agitated about something that was going wrong while I was trying to fix it....
very bright lights, a peculiar whirring sound and there he was....... he offered me the hammer and pointed at the offending object. I hit the object and it disintegrated.
He then pointed out the switch on the handle, I pressed it and it all reassembled, but this time everything worked.


Then I woke up......

 

[tac foley]

I've just realised that you are talking about 'trucks'.

tac

 

[beavercreek]

I've just realised that you are talking about 'trucks'.

tac

you say tomaato I say tomarto..........
bogies, ...... trucks ...... same problem......

 

[David1226]

Reminds me of the old one about what is the difference between bogies and Brussels sprouts..... You can't get kids to eat Brussels.

David

 

[PhilP]

I thought kids wiped bogies on the underside of school (and dining) chairs??

 

[tac foley]

you say tomaato I say tomarto..........
bogies, ...... trucks ...... same problem......

The locomotive, and all those of a similar ilk - Climax, Heisler, Dunkirk, are called two- or three-truck whatevers, not two or three 'bogies'.

Just making the point that those who invents 'em can call 'em what they like, and they were 'not invented here'.

tac

 

[beavercreek]

I stand corrected

The locomotive, and all those of a similar ilk - Climax, Heisler, Dunkirk, are called two- or three-truck whatevers, not two or three 'bogies'.

Just making the point that those who invents 'em can call 'em what they like, and they were 'not invented here'.

tac

I stand fully corrected......... I usually refer to my shays as three truck and two truck...... obviously I just had an aberration but will now never make the mistake again......... ....
Far from it for me to be the BOGIE-man ...

 

[trammayo]

I stand corrected


I stand fully corrected......... I usually refer to my shays as three truck and two truck...... obviously I just had an aberration but will now never make the mistake again......... ....
Far from it for me to be the BOGIE-man ...
View attachment 227444

Just be content to know that the word truck came into the English language long before it became the alternative word for bogie

Also, pressed steel for such a conveyance was invented in Leeds!

 

[Lobethalbahn2]

The locomotive, and all those of a similar ilk - Climax, Heisler, Dunkirk, are called two- or three-truck whatevers, not two or three 'bogies'.

Just making the point that those who invents 'em can call 'em what they like, and they were 'not invented here'.

tac

Well, in Australia they called them bogies whether on locally-built geared locos or imports. See page 7 & 8 of the Light Railway Research Association of Australia Journal 212 in the link below:

http://www.lrrsa.org.au/LR212_3-8.pdf

Or the Harman geared logging locomotive in Light Railways 208 page 3 & 4:

http://www.lrrsa.org.au/LR208_3-7.pdf

...so seeing as we invented and built (some of) them here, and used them extensively, can we call them what we like?