MFX decoder sound on analogue power...?

MTheStrong said:
Note in my case the address is shown as 11. However on my system I only use MFX and so the actual address, for me, is irrelevant because I select the loco from its image. Apologies for the reflection on the CS2 screen as I took the photo in the conservatory
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Just to clarify. The screenshot is of my loco's initial installation in the CS2. I did not set the address. This was created on the initial registration. I have tried to run the loco on a DCC system but it does not recognise address 11 but it does operate on address 3. As I pointed out previously this is largely irrelevant to me as I use the CS2 and select the loco by clicking on its icon.

I am still puzzled that the address on my loco is 11 and Jon's is 7. I have not yet been able to find a satisfactory explanation. It msy just be a coincidence that in my case the loco is the 11th Mfx loco installed on my CS2
 
Here with an update on following my visit to Jon yesterday:

1. As expected Jon's loco was identified as having a Mfx decoder when registering on the CS2. It showed address 12, see post 35 which seems to confirm that it represents the 12th Mfx loco installed on the CS2. It ran on address 3 on DCC but not 12.

2. The loco ran on DC with lights but no sound - not unexpected as it clearly states on the box and instructions that sound is not available when running DC.

3. CVs 13, 14 and 50 were not shown on the programming screen on the CS2 - so it was not possible to change their values. However CV29 could be read and changed.

4. CVs 13, 14 and 50 could be read on the Massoth handset but could not be changed.

So to summarise. The loco runs as expected in Mfx mode. It runs as expected in DCC. It runs as per instructions in DC but with no sound, as clearly stated.

Martin
 
MTheStrong said:
Here with an update on following my visit to Jon yesterday:

1. As expected Jon's loco was identified as having a Mfx decoder when registering on the CS2. It showed address 12, see post 35 which seems to confirm that it represents the 12th Mfx loco installed on the CS2. It ran on address 3 on DCC but not 12.

2. The loco ran on DC with lights but no sound - not unexpected as it clearly states on the box and instructions that sound is not available when running DC.

3. CVs 13, 14 and 50 were not shown on the programming screen on the CS2 - so it was not possible to change their values. However CV29 could be read and changed.

4. CVs 13, 14 and 50 could be read on the Massoth handset but could not be changed.

So to summarise. The loco runs as expected in Mfx mode. It runs as expected in DCC. It runs as per instructions in DC but with no sound, as clearly stated.

Martin
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Martin,

Did you by any chance try to change any other CV's on DCC / Massoth?

So it would appear that Marklin/LGB have decided to remove the sound option when a MFX equipped loco is running on analogue track-power.

It would also appear that they have decided 'we' are not to be allowed to alter (at least some) CV values under DCC. - Interesting.


I think I will have to email Marklin, and ask a few questions.. :wondering:
 
Hi Philip,

I am only aware that this specific loco - LGB 20752 has this issue. As I mentioned it is clearly stated on the box and in the instructions no sound when running DC. I will have a look at my other Mfx locos but I do not think that they have a similar instruction regarding DC with no sound.

I understand that certain Trix locos have a similar issue. Perhaps there was a problem with a particular batch of decoders. I recall that certain PC chips were used that did not have all the functions available. So rather than scrap them they disabled certain functions - Intel?

I am sure that the reply from Maerklin will be of interest to many people on this site.

Regards

Martin
 
For DC operation, set CV 50 to 2 (DC and DCC on, MFX off) plus program cv 13 t0 255 to turn on F1-F8, and CV 14 to 195.
 
Dan said:
For DC operation, set CV 50 to 2 (DC and DCC on, MFX off) plus program cv 13 t0 255 to turn on F1-F8, and CV 14 to 195.
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That's all good in theory, Dan, thanks - but in the case of this particular loco and decoder all those CVs seem to be locked out (under both DCC and MFX control systems) - they can be read, but not altered. Ref. Martin's post no.43 above.

Jon.
 
Dan said:
For DC operation, set CV 50 to 2 (DC and DCC on, MFX off) plus program cv 13 t0 255 to turn on F1-F8, and CV 14 to 195.
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See point 4 in Post #43..

It would appear this is not allowed on this particular decoder?

PhilP.
 
The fact that the CV's "don't show up" on your CS is a limitation of your CS. On a regular DCC system they are most likely available. I would try POM for those CV's or a different DCC system. Again, more reasons I like a DCC system that lets you do what you want, and does not "shelter" you from things it deems not to be any of your business... and again the "address" 12 is not an addrss, just an index into the list of locos in your system. Like 12 people in line, the 12 person does not have a name change, he's just 12th in line... an unnecessary complication in my mind, the system could easily reference the real DCC address and could still avoid conflicts without interposing it's own numbering system. Sorry you are having all this difficulty, if it was me, I would not give up yet on DC sound, but I would use a different system to program it. Greg
 
I have no experience with a CS2. Here is where to change the settings you want on a CS3. This is the opening screen when I select a MFX loco to be edited:

Edit added: see post #52 below for explanation of the screen shots.
 

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I can't use the editor to insert pics tonight for some reason. Sorry about this non-post post!

Ah ha - site upgrade was in progress!
 
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Edit added: I got caught in the site upgrade!

OK, let me try this explaining the pics in post #50. 1a is the screen that opens when a loco is selected in the "Edit Loks" mode. Clicking on the "Configuration" tab will bring up access to the decoders various setting. It may take a moment or two for the decoder to be read, Pic 2a. Expanding the menu items, in this case "Formats" shows what the individual settings are in a graphical mode, Pic 3a. Clicking on the bubble corresponding to the desired function in the DC functions will turn the function on (solid bubble) or off (open bubble) in analog DC. This is also where the DC starting voltage and max DC voltage (not shown in the pics) can be adjusted. Scrolling further down in the "Formats" menu, Pic 4a, brings up the DCC settings. The is where CV29 can be changed by filling in the bubbles, and where the short address, extended (long) address, and MU address can be modified.

Jon, I suppose there could possibly be something unique about the specific mfx decoder in the Borsig that prevents any changes but it seems unlikely.
 
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Thanks PhilS for your comments. It would be most helpful if comments and suggestions related to the specific loco and decoder. I have used the CS2 for a number of years. My CS2 is able to read all the CVs on my other Mfx locos. The problem is with the LGB 20752. Both locos, Jon and mine, had the same problems. On the CS2 CVs 13,14 and 50 were not available and although they could be read on the Massoth Controller they could not be changed. See post 43

Martin
 
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The fact that the CV's "don't show up" on your CS is a limitation of your CS. On a regular DCC system they are most likely available. I would try POM for those CV's or a different DCC system. Again, more reasons I like a DCC system that lets you do what you want, and does not "shelter" you from things it deems not to be any of your business... and again the "address" 12 is not an addrss, just an index into the list of locos in your system. Like 12 people in line, the 12 person does not have a name change, he's just 12th in line... an unnecessary complication in my mind, the system could easily reference the real DCC address and could still avoid conflicts without interposing it's own numbering system. Sorry you are having all this difficulty, if it was me, I would not give up yet on DC sound, but I would use a different system to program it. Greg

Greg,

I have to disagree with your comments. My Maerklin CS2 has the latest firmware and is fully functional and is able to program my other locos fitted with Mfx. Both the CS2 and Massoth CS on 2 different LGB20752 have the same issue - See posts 43 to 45. The locos were tested using both POM and the Programming Track.The issue lies with the decoder and not the Central Stations for these particular examples of the LGB20752.

If you have a LGB20752 I would be interested to learn how you were able to change CVs13,14 and 50.

Regards

Martin
 
Apologies in advance for repeating some of what Martin has already explained - Phil, Greg and Dan, your comments and advice are appreciated and useful for MFX decoders IN GENERAL, but don't seem to apply in the particular case.

There is something odd and non-standard about the decoder installed in this specific loco, the LGB 20752 "Kleine Dicke" Borsig 0-4-0. The ability to access and/or reprogram certain CVs is disabled in this decoder, whether through fault or design. Both mine and Martin's examples of this same model are responding (or failing to respond) in exactly the same way, so (unless we've both been EXTREMELY unlucky - the two locos were bought from different suppliers in different countries) it's a "feature" rather than an individual faulty decoder. M/LGB do seem to acknowledge this by the fact that the icons on the box do state that sound is not available on DC for this model, something that I'm not disputing but have been trying to find a way around - it appears at the moment that it is not possible.

So, the interesting question is "why"?
Are these CVs locked out deliberately at the factory, or because there is some problem with the decoder batch?
Is it a rather strange marketing choice to try to encourage people to move away from DC to either DCC or MFX?
Is it a way of M/LGB using up a batch of faulty or reject decoders that work in every other way but this, so they put them into a batch of "budget" MFX locos?

There is no dispute that this particular model is VERY cheap for an MFX/sound equipped loco - it is almost half the price of any other MFX-chipped product in LGB's current range, and given that it works just fine on MFX or DCC systems it is (or was, because it is not now listed as available new so the batch is presumably all gone) a perfectly acceptable little loco model. It even RUNS quite happily on DC, it just has no sound functions on it.

Does anyone else on here have an example of THIS EXACT MODEL that they could test, and see if their results correspond with Martin's and mine?

Jon.

Edit: posted this at just about the same moment as Martin's latest post above, so apologies if we're echoing each other....
 
What are the values of the affected CV's after issuing the reset command of CV8 = 8, which will return and reset the decoder back to Factory Defaults, (as in for this Model) and put the decoder back to a confirmed known stable state?
 
Martin, the main point I was trying to make is if you have a system where the CV does not even "show up", as indicated by the OP, that is a serious limitation on the CS.... I see the "templates" where your access to features is controlled by what the CS "thinks"...

My comment again is this is a restriction by the CS... I understand the philosophy on only presenting you with CVs you SHOULD be able to access, but if there is NO OTHER WAY to try to access ANY CV, again not able to even TRY to program or read an arbitrary CV, then that is a limitation in the CS.

I understand that in this case, to the user, the point is moot, since that decoder does not allow you, but again, I am rankling against a CS that decides you should not even be allowed to try.

This is in the OP's post. This is my main point. I get it about the specifics of this decoder.

Greg
 
The Shed said:
What are the values of the affected CV's after issuing the reset command of CV8 = 8, which will return and reset the decoder back to Factory Defaults, (as in for this Model) and put the decoder back to a confirmed known stable state?
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Shed, when the Hellspawn (sorry, I keep forgetting I'm supposed to call them "Grandchildren") have gone home again after the weekend I will be able to reclaim the dining room table and give this a try - will report back....

Jon.
 
Hi Jon and Martin,

Unfortunately, I don't have one of these Borsig models. It is clear to me now from what you have explained that this is a decoder problem specific to the 20752 Borsig. I wonder if swapping out the decoder is the only (rather expensive) option to get analog sound?

In any case, I want to thank you again for bringing up the question. It has truly been a valuable learning experience for me exploring the issue!

And with that, I'll hit the mute button on my contributions to this thread;).
 
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