Milton Loco Works burner- we want... information!

Dtsteam - 16/11/2009 11:08 PM

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brianthesnail96 - 16/11/2009 10:28 PM Does it have a sealed- or more sealed- smokebox? Just wondering if that'd affect the air (and butane) flow, different draughting?
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</p><p>I'm not sure that the smokebox would make a difference, but a tight seal between the burner and the flue would. My Accuraft burner is a loose fit and probably draws cold secondary air into the flue. Might be time to seal it up properly :thinking: </p>
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re secondary air - I understand (from an impeccable source :cool: ) that on the generic locos, the second hole on the burner mounting plate that looks like a screw is missing, is for exactly that (secondary air, not to tell me I have a screw missing.....).
 
Dtsteam - 16/11/2009 10:48 PM

<p>Generally, holes seem to be better than slots  - as suggested by Charles M above. One possible reason is simply size - if a poker burner is 10mm dia then a 1mm quarter slot will be about 8mm<sup>2</sup>. A 3mm hole on the other hand will be nearer 28mm<sup>2</sup>. The larger the hole, presumably the slower the gas air mixture, and therefore less tendency for the flame to lift. Looking at a piccy of the Milton burner the thing is peppered with holes, so must be less obstructive than the slot burner. I don't know what happens if the burner is restrictive, but my guess is that you get a less than optimal gas air mix. It could just be that the slot burner gets in the way more than the Milton burner.</p><p>Btw. If you do a Google search for 'Milton burner' this thread is the second response - fame at last Matt :applause: :applause: </p>
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I'll have that, good point. I wonder what size the Milton holes are though - anyone got one??

NHN
 
The Roundhouse one was designed with Leeds University- being a contract it will have been worked on by lecturers and post grad students- i.e. people a lot smarter than I am!

I'm just sticking to Accucraft locos- standard vs Milton vs meshed standard.

I think David is probably on the money, I certainly like that theory and will probably give it a try.
 
brianthesnail96 - 16/11/2009 10:28 PM

Does it have a sealed- or more sealed- smokebox? Just wondering if that'd affect the air (and butane) flow, different draughting?
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Dunno - it's gone now.... :angry:
 
Oh, the Baldwin doesn't have a superheater tube running down the flue.


What about the countess?
 
The superheater tube worries me a bit- it glows red hot! Having pulled mine out the other day it's also distorted quite considerably with the heat.
 
Yes, I noticed the steam pipe ran under the boiler - it took it noticeably longer to warm through than my other engines with 'superheaters' - which is a whole new discussion - Bradypus was going to try to measure the steam temperature, but I think he's gotten a bit too busy moving house and running a business......

It would be interesting to see if the presence of the superheater pipe is affecting the flame at all...... :cool:
 
Digressing slightly, mention of the superheater pipe reminded me of a loco a mate fixed for an acquaintance of his. The problem was a superheater pipe blocked with carbon.
A quick bit of research revealed the following quote from Roundhouse's website in the technical section regarding steam oil.
"The change of oil was brought about a few years after Roundhouse adopted internal gas firing and a small number of engines were experiencing blocked super heater pipes after prolonged use. The blockages were caused by carbonised oil, though this had never been a problem with the earlier externally fired models."

I suspect this may have been caused by overfilling the lubricator and then screwing the top on forcing neat oil into the steam pipe.
 
Digress? US? :rolf:

I agree totally Neil, it amazes me there aren't more examples of this happening. Changing the formulation of the oil will have helped, but I can't see it entirely eliminating the issue.

Once warmed up the loco ran well, but it did seem to use a lot of water......but the boiler is small. Hard to tell really, how much difference it makes. Matt's next thermo thesis maybe, an investigation into the value of superheating in small locomotives? :D :D :D
 
New Haven Neil - 23/11/2009 11:44 AM

Digress? US? :rolf:

I agree totally Neil, it amazes me there aren't more examples of this happening. Changing the formulation of the oil will have helped, but I can't see it entirely eliminating the issue.

Once warmed up the loco ran well, but it did seem to use a lot of water......but the boiler is small. Hard to tell really, how much difference it makes. Matt's next thermo thesis maybe, an investigation into the value of superheating in small locomotives? :D :D :D
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I concurr, the Baldwin does use alot of water.
 
An interesting point came up about the superheater pipe on GSM towards the end. Someone said (can't remember who) that if some water found its way into the tube (red-hot, as those of us who dare to peer down the flue of fire-breathing Accy will know), it could very quickly vaporise and this would lead to a large but brief surge in power. This could happen when the boiler was very full (but not when priming, as presumably much water would cool the tube) but also if it was quite full and the loco went over a summit or a bump in the track. This seemed a very logical explanation to me of something I had seen a few times but had never really worked out.

Any thoughts or experiences anyone?
 
johnsaintjim - 23/11/2009 12:46 PM

An interesting point came up about the superheater pipe on GSM towards the end. Someone said (can't remember who) that if some water found its way into the tube (red-hot, as those of us who dare to peer down the flue of fire-breathing Accy will know), it could very quickly vaporise and this would lead to a large but brief surge in power. This could happen when the boiler was very full (but not when priming, as presumably much water would cool the tube) but also if it was quite full and the loco went over a summit or a bump in the track. This seemed a very logical explanation to me of something I had seen a few times but had never really worked out.

Any thoughts or experiences anyone?
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Yes, I have seen this happen very briefly. I also used to drive a 9 1/2 gauge pacisifc that could do it too (radiant superheaters) - now that was frightening! She would slip like nothing on earth.
 
Doug - 23/11/2009 12:10 PM

New Haven Neil - 23/11/2009 11:44 AM

Digress? US? :rolf:

I agree totally Neil, it amazes me there aren't more examples of this happening. Changing the formulation of the oil will have helped, but I can't see it entirely eliminating the issue.

Once warmed up the loco ran well, but it did seem to use a lot of water......but the boiler is small. Hard to tell really, how much difference it makes. Matt's next thermo thesis maybe, an investigation into the value of superheating in small locomotives? :D :D :D
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I concurr, the Baldwin does use alot of water.
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Lucky man, you have one!! They are a nice model with heaps of detail.

Reduced water consumption is of course one of the great benfits of superheating. :cool: Looks like our little superheaters may work better then I give them credit for!!
 
One of the guys at the local 16mm Assoc group is heavily modifying a Baldwin - blow down valve on the water gauage, and i think an axel driven pump for the water - uses the side tank for water.
 
<p>Eeek! I shall re- read that when I'm more awake. I feel it might be a bit more complex than my very basic grasp of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics can cope with- especially turning it into something I can actually coherently explain and calculate!</p><p>Thankyou though Chris, plenty to think about!
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Doug - 23/11/2009 11:55 PM One of the guys at the local 16mm Assoc group is heavily modifying a Baldwin - blow down valve on the water gauage, and i think an axel driven pump for the water - uses the side tank for water.
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</p><p>Interesting Doug. Is this the same guy who says if you run it you will wear out the valve gear?</p>
 
johnsaintjim - 24/11/2009 8:33 AM

<p>
Doug - 23/11/2009 11:55 PM One of the guys at the local 16mm Assoc group is heavily modifying a Baldwin - blow down valve on the water gauage, and i think an axel driven pump for the water - uses the side tank for water.
Click to expand...
</p><p>Interesting Doug. Is this the same guy who says if you run it you will wear out the valve gear?</p>
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Yes indeed, his is showing wear already, but he does run it alot. He says don't run them with a heavy train.

He has 2 of them, one from the batch of locos that weren't built properly - he's re-built it and is now converting it (the one in the pictures), still has a slightly rotated boiler - it isn't upright. The other one he has he is keeping as supplied.
 
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