Operating LGB electric switches without official switch boxes? (answered)

[playmofire]

If you are using electric points, -bbbb, you need to be sure that they are set for the direction of travel of the train as "push through" where the points are set against the train doesn't work (or at the least is reduced).

 

[-bbbb]

If you are using electric points, -bbbb, you need to be sure that they are set for the direction of travel of the train as "push through" where the points are set against the train doesn't work (or at the least is reduced).

Have you found a way to integrate them with the playmobil semaphore signals (eg. the 4394 or the 4353)?

 

[dunnyrail]

View attachment 261007

I use toggle switches, momentary ON - OFF - ON. They are mounted in the track diagram.

The wiring is pretty simple. The wires on the left go to the momentary switches, the diodes are in the middle and the wire on the right goes to the LGB switch motor.

View attachment 261009

My wiring is all color coded (I use the standard resistor color code, ie. switch 1’s wire is brown, switch 2’s is red) to help in troubleshooting.

View attachment 261010
You can see the various colors. To get higher than the colors for 0 - 9, I change the color of the spade connector and start the sequence again.

Nice neat wiring job.

 

[-bbbb]

Yes, they are capacitors, on the improved version. - Note they are a little like diodes, in that they are polarity sensitive!

I've ordered some diodes. But what difference do the capacitors make?

 

[dunnyrail]

I've ordered some diodes. But what difference do the capacitors make?

Capacitors can add an extra whumpf to the juice going to the point motors in cases helping to change more than 1 point at a time. In UK we talk about ‘Capacitor Discharge Units’ . Link to just one available in UK that gives a good description of what they are.

capacitor discharge units CDU

 

[LGeoB]

I'd always use a capacitor discharge unit - can use very thin wire and it works over wires many metres long.

 

[John Russo]

LGB switch (point) motors are just that, motors. If they were not mounted inside their housing and 18V DC is supplied to them they will spin like any motor.

If you open the unit up, you will see that the motor is mounted in the housing such that it can only turn about 1/4 of a revolution (perhaps less). there is gear attached to the the motor shaft which sets in a gear rack. The 1/4 turn of the shaft causes the rack to slide back and forth depending on which way the motor is turning. The track is connected to the rack which achieves the back and forth motion to change the track.

18V for 300 milliseconds (3/10 of a second) is the default pulse when using a DCC supply. If you you are using a manual switch, you can achieve that by a quick push and release. The LGB 51750 is the unit designed to control the switch motors. They can be had for $50 on eBay.

Each unit has four momentary rocker switchers and therefor can control 4 switch motors independently. You can wire two switch motors to one rocker switch, however, the two switch motors will be simultaneously activated when the rocker switch is thrown. Keep in mind that LGB signals use the same switch motor to operate. So you could wire a signal and switch to the same rocker switch and when activated the track and signal will change together.

If you are only going to control the two switches, the LGB box would be the easiest way to do it, If you are going to end up with many switches and signals, wiring as others suggested can save some money.

The LGB 51750 uses the an AC input and then converts that to DC output (using the diodes) which is connected to the switch motor. If you do your own switch you can either replicate that or just start with DC and not do any conversion.

 

[John Russo]

For anyone with interest, the very short video below shows an LGB switch being operated using some IOT components.

It is prototype work I have been doing in an effort to completely bypass DCC.

In the video I am using a smartphone (not sown) to send a signal via WiFi to an ESP8266 WiFi microprocessor. Software on the ESP8266 interprets the signal and in turn controls a L293D chip. The L293D passes 18V DC to the switch motor. Using the software and the capabilities of the L293D, the polarity sent to the switch can be changed to achieve the straight and diverging switching of the track.

ESP8266 - $6
L293D - $3
Power Supply - Old discarded laptop
Software - Loss of hair and risk of heart attack

 

[JimmyB]

For anyone with interest, the very short video below shows an LGB switch being operated using some IOT components.

It is prototype work I have been doing in an effort to completely bypass DCC.

In the video I am using a smartphone (not sown) to send a signal via WiFi to an ESP8266 WiFi microprocessor. Software on the ESP8266 interprets the signal and in turn controls a L293D chip. The L293D passes 18V DC to the switch motor. Using the software and the capabilities of the L293D, the polarity sent to the switch can be changed to achieve the straight and diverging switching of the track.

ESP8266 - $6
L293D - $3
Power Supply - Old discarded laptop
Software - Loss of hair and risk of heart attack

John, really like the looks of this as a RC (WiFi) system, could be what I am looking for, if only somebody could develop it "ready to go".

 

[John Russo]

John, really like the looks of this as a RC (WiFi) system, could be what I am looking for, if only somebody could develop it "ready to go".

Here is another video wherein I am doing track feedback.

I use fritzing.com to work up a printed circuit board for the loco units. I have yet to submit the design for fabrication.

This may end up begin a pipe dream for me but it is a fun dream.

If I ever get things to where I want, it holds the promise of:

• Battery operated trains with no DCC
• 700+ speed steps
• Real-time changing of CV settings. (I.e I can change those on the fly while operating the trains)
• Low cost sound boxes with the ability to record your own sounds.
• Control from multiple phones, tablets, laptops simultaneously
• Automated routines with unlimited options.
• Control of all lights and accessories at a fraction of the cost.

 

[-bbbb]

LGB switch (point) motors are just that, motors. If they were not mounted inside their housing and 18V DC is supplied to them they will spin like any motor.

If you open the unit up, you will see that the motor is mounted in the housing such that it can only turn about 1/4 of a revolution (perhaps less). there is gear attached to the the motor shaft which sets in a gear rack. The 1/4 turn of the shaft causes the rack to slide back and forth depending on which way the motor is turning. The track is connected to the rack which achieves the back and forth motion to change the track.

18V for 300 milliseconds (3/10 of a second) is the default pulse when using a DCC supply. If you you are using a manual switch, you can achieve that by a quick push and release. The LGB 51750 is the unit designed to control the switch motors. They can be had for $50 on eBay.

Each unit has four momentary rocker switchers and therefor can control 4 switch motors independently. You can wire two switch motors to one rocker switch, however, the two switch motors will be simultaneously activated when the rocker switch is thrown. Keep in mind that LGB signals use the same switch motor to operate. So you could wire a signal and switch to the same rocker switch and when activated the track and signal will change together.

If you are only going to control the two switches, the LGB box would be the easiest way to do it, If you are going to end up with many switches and signals, wiring as others suggested can save some money.

The LGB 51750 uses the an AC input and then converts that to DC output (using the diodes) which is connected to the switch motor. If you do your own switch you can either replicate that or just start with DC and not do any conversion.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to try to rig my own set up with diodes and switches for a few dollars. Once I get the switches working I'm going to try to devise a way for the playmobil semaphores to move in conjunction with the switch, using only the switch motor... Maybe a diagonal cut-out attached to the switch to change the sideways motion of the switch to an upward/downward motion for the semaphore handle.

 

[dunnyrail]

Here is another video wherein I am doing track feedback.

I use fritzing.com to work up a printed circuit board for the loco units. I have yet to submit the design for fabrication.

This may end up begin a pipe dream for me but it is a fun dream.

If I ever get things to where I want, it holds the promise of:

• Battery operated trains with no DCC
• 700+ speed steps
• Real-time changing of CV settings. (I.e I can change those on the fly while operating the trains)
• Low cost sound boxes with the ability to record your own sounds.
• Control from multiple phones, tablets, laptops simultaneously
• Automated routines with unlimited options.
• Control of all lights and accessories at a fraction of the cost.

Little warning to originator of this thread (-bbbb.), the Motors are easily dismantled but have a specific way of going back together, get it wrong and they will not work properly. Sure you know this John.

Interesting concept and nice to see both systems working for those who are into PC working. I can see a use for this with a Warning Light latched on, plus a button is pressed to turn it off with perhaps an additional Audible Warning (Buzzer) both with individual turn off options. Buzzer on its own or both light and buzzer. This would work nicely at the entrance to my Shed to give any operators inside the Shed a warning that the next Train is waiting acceptance into the Shed. I think I could even manage to wire it up with a diagram but big issue is space for the Computer and I do not have a modern enough PC being a Mac man, also my Mac laptop is past it these days.

 

[John Russo]

the Motors are easily dismantled but have a specific way of going back together, get it wrong and they will not work properly. Sure you know this John.

Yes. I endured the pain of putting one back together incorrectly.

I am now in the habit of liberal use of the cell phone camera to counter my failing memory.

 

[-bbbb]

I got the points working with an lgb 5075 switch box, however one of the points works in one direction nicely, but hesitates and makes a clicking noise in the other direction, partially but not fully going back to the other position. The same wiring makes one point work well, but the other has this noisy problem in one direction, so It seems to be a problem with the point. Any ideas what's going on with it or how to fix it?

 

[John Russo]

Any ideas what's going on with it or how to fix it?

Does the switch move back and forth freely using just your finger? Do it for both units and compare.

 

[-bbbb]

Does the switch move back and forth freely using just your finger? Do it for both units and compare.

it takes slightly more force to move the one that's sticking. I think you've found the problem. now I need to figure out how to fix it.

 

[John Russo]

You can take it apart and look for issues. As mentioned before, take pictures as you do.

You also have the other one to reference if needed.

Once you open it up, you will see the gear rack sitting on top of the front of the motor.

You should be able to apply a little pressure downward while sliding the rack back and forth.

The downward pressure should be enough to keep the rack seated in the round gear of the motor.

• One cause of problems is that the rack is not properly seated in the gear and when yo put the cover back on and screw it down tight, it cause the binding.
• 
  
• Another issue can be missing or misplace side pieces. There are two loosely placed black plastic guides on either side of the motor housing (The bright metal part in the middle). If one of those is missing or not properly placed, the motor will be misaligned and that can cause binding.
• 
  
• Another thing to notice is that when you put the cover back on, it should seat freely and be obvious that it is on and in place. If you have to use the screw pressure to get the cover into place, then things are not right.

 

[John Russo]

Here is the unit with just the cover off. The shiny part is the motor. The rack is on the bottom side of the throw-arm.

As I said before, you should be able to press down on the throw-arm/rack while sliding it back and forth.






Here it is with the rack taken off and turned upside down. You can see the gears on the rack and on the motor:





You can the side guides here. They are secured just by sitting in the groove of the motor. Ther eis one on each
side:

 

[-bbbb]

Everything seemed to be in the right place. Maybe it just needs some sort of lubrication/cleaning.
if so, what's the best thing to lubricate with and where?

The resistance/hesitation all seems to be located in the turning of the motor shaft. The moving of the rails is fine without connecting to the gear. would WD40 damage the motor?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

You do not want WD40 to get onto the commutator or the brushes. It's unusual a motor runs one way ok and not the other, since the same windings are used inside.

A drop of oil on the motor shaft is fine. Do you have something to remove the calcium buildup on the rack? I have been able to use the common "lime away" products with a toothbrush on plastic.

Greg