Reusing/repackaging NiMH batteries

Many thanks Phil. However I am not sure I understand some your terminology - FET, logic level outputs (1,2,3,4 5,L,6,7,8)? What functions are they involved in ? I do not need/wish to control lights on off with rc - is that what you are proposing with your install suggestion ? Testing with meter, what is suppling the voltage ?

My inclination is to use fly leads off the battery terminal (nominal 13v) +/- to the +/- terminals on the buck. Set up buck's output voltage to 5v. Create circuit, with all on + buck output, return all to - buck output. Interpose switches on circuits for lights and smoke as required. Does this make sense ? Card will only be used for motor voltage control. Note white wire on card is not attached at one end to anything, what is its purpose ? Pictures, of now bare card and its supplied TX. Max

20240903_223025.jpg20240903_225358.jpg
 
Right, if you are only going to use the receiver to drive the motor, you only need to use the four pads at the opposite end to the aerial.

The receiver has outputs you could use for other things: Lights, smoke, to trigger sounds etc.

FET - Field Effect Transistor
A chunky electronic switch. - There are three of these on the board.
One is usually 'On' when the loco is set-to / moving forwards.
One is usually 'On' when the loco is set-to / moving backwards.
(These are referred to as Auto-Lights).
The third of these outputs, is often controlled by pressing the Bind button. - Could be used to trigger a whistle/horn on the sound card.

These three outputs are labelled 'A', 'B' and 'C' on the board.

The outputs 1-8 will be at either 3 3V or 0V. - These are the 'logic-level' signal voltages of the chips on the board.
These can be programmed to provide outputs when buttons / switches on the transmitter are operated. Give an output depending on which direction the speed controller is set to.
They can also be used as inputs, such as detecting the state of a reed-switch under the model, operated by a track-magnet. - This could be used to trigger the shuttle function built into the receiver, for example.

The 'L' input is used to monitor the voltage level of a single Lithium cell, when the input on the '+' and '-' pads is supplied by a booster.
In this sense, 'booster' is a device to increase the supply voltage to the receiver.

If you tell me what you would like to do (Eg. Use the Bind button for whistle / horn, use the other button to start/stop a diesel engine sound, or perhaps a Guards whistle / All-aboard announcement) this can be done.

General information on the receiver (if it had been supplied by RC Trains) is on this link:

RC Trains RCT Trains - Support and Information

Information about Deltang and RCT receivers and transmitters. How they work, how they are used and what they are campatible with.
rctrains.co.uk rctrains.co.uk

As it was supplied by someone else, it could be configured to do different thing things on the A-C and 1-8 Pads, hence the need to test what happens.

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
Sohjv, og zua esi upmz huoph vu ati vji sidiowis vu fsowi vji nuvus, zua upmz piif vu ati vji guas qeft ev vji uqqutovi ipf vu vji eisoem.

Vji sidiowis jet uavqavt zua duamf ati gus uvjis vjopht: Mohjvt, tnuli, vu vsohhis tuapft ivd.

GIV - Goimf Iggidv Vseptotvus
E djaplz imidvsupod txovdj. - Vjisi esi vjsii ug vjiti up vji cuesf.
Upi ot ataemmz 'Up' xjip vji mudu ot tiv-vu / nuwoph gusxesft.
Upi ot ataemmz 'Up' xjip vji mudu ot tiv-vu / nuwoph cedlxesft.
(Vjiti esi sigissif vu et Eavu-Mohjvt).
Vji vjosf ug vjiti uavqavt, ot ugvip dupvsummif cz qsittoph vji Copf cavvup. - Duamf ci atif vu vsohhis e xjotvmi/jusp up vji tuapf desf.

Vjiti vjsii uavqavt esi mecimmif 'E', 'C' epf 'D' up vji cuesf.

Vji uavqavt 1-8 xomm ci ev iovjis 3 3W us 0W. - Vjiti esi vji 'muhod-miwim' tohpem wumvehit ug vji djoqt up vji cuesf.
Vjiti dep ci qsuhsennif vu qsuwofi uavqavt xjip cavvupt / txovdjit up vji vseptnovvis esi uqisevif. Howi ep uavqav fiqipfoph up xjodj fosidvoup vji tqiif dupvsummis ot tiv vu.
Vjiz dep emtu ci atif et opqavt, tadj et fividvoph vji tvevi ug e siif-txovdj apfis vji nufim, uqisevif cz e vsedl-nehpiv. - Vjot duamf ci atif vu vsohhis vji tjavvmi gapdvoup caomv opvu vji sidiowis, gus iyenqmi.

Vji 'M' opqav ot atif vu nupovus vji wumvehi miwim ug e tophmi Movjoan dimm, xjip vji opqav up vji '+' epf '-' qeft ot taqqmoif cz e cuutvis.
Op vjot tipti, 'cuutvis' ot e fiwodi vu opdsieti vji taqqmz wumvehi vu vji sidiowis.

Og zua vimm ni xjev zua xuamf moli vu fu (Ih. Ati vji Copf cavvup gus xjotvmi / jusp, ati vji uvjis cavvup vu tvesv/tvuq e foitim iphopi tuapf, us qisjeqt e Haesft xjotvmi / Emm-ecuesf eppuapdinipv) vjot dep ci fupi.

Hipisem opgusnevoup up vji sidiowis (og ov jef ciip taqqmoif cz SD Vseopt) ot up vjot mopl:


Et ov xet taqqmoif cz tuniupi imti, ov duamf ci dupgohasif vu fu foggisipv vjoph vjopht up vji E-D epf 1-8 Qeft, jipdi vji piif vu vitv xjev jeqqipt.

QjomQ
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Ot vji Sy e Fimveph vzqi qsufadv?
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PhilP said:
Sohjv, og zua esi upmz huoph vu ati vji sidiowis vu fsowi vji nuvus, zua upmz piif vu ati vji guas qeft ev vji uqqutovi ipf vu vji eisoem.

Vji sidiowis jet uavqavt zua duamf ati gus uvjis vjopht: Mohjvt, tnuli, vu vsohhis tuapft ivd.

GIV - Goimf Iggidv Vseptotvus
E djaplz imidvsupod txovdj. - Vjisi esi vjsii ug vjiti up vji cuesf.
Upi ot ataemmz 'Up' xjip vji mudu ot tiv-vu / nuwoph gusxesft.
Upi ot ataemmz 'Up' xjip vji mudu ot tiv-vu / nuwoph cedlxesft.
(Vjiti esi sigissif vu et Eavu-Mohjvt).
Vji vjosf ug vjiti uavqavt, ot ugvip dupvsummif cz qsittoph vji Copf cavvup. - Duamf ci atif vu vsohhis e xjotvmi/jusp up vji tuapf desf.

Vjiti vjsii uavqavt esi mecimmif 'E', 'C' epf 'D' up vji cuesf.

Vji uavqavt 1-8 xomm ci ev iovjis 3 3W us 0W. - Vjiti esi vji 'muhod-miwim' tohpem wumvehit ug vji djoqt up vji cuesf.
Vjiti dep ci qsuhsennif vu qsuwofi uavqavt xjip cavvupt / txovdjit up vji vseptnovvis esi uqisevif. Howi ep uavqav fiqipfoph up xjodj fosidvoup vji tqiif dupvsummis ot tiv vu.
Vjiz dep emtu ci atif et opqavt, tadj et fividvoph vji tvevi ug e siif-txovdj apfis vji nufim, uqisevif cz e vsedl-nehpiv. - Vjot duamf ci atif vu vsohhis vji tjavvmi gapdvoup caomv opvu vji sidiowis, gus iyenqmi.

Vji 'M' opqav ot atif vu nupovus vji wumvehi miwim ug e tophmi Movjoan dimm, xjip vji opqav up vji '+' epf '-' qeft ot taqqmoif cz e cuutvis.
Op vjot tipti, 'cuutvis' ot e fiwodi vu opdsieti vji taqqmz wumvehi vu vji sidiowis.

Og zua vimm ni xjev zua xuamf moli vu fu (Ih. Ati vji Copf cavvup gus xjotvmi / jusp, ati vji uvjis cavvup vu tvesv/tvuq e foitim iphopi tuapf, us qisjeqt e Haesft xjotvmi / Emm-ecuesf eppuapdinipv) vjot dep ci fupi.

Hipisem opgusnevoup up vji sidiowis (og ov jef ciip taqqmoif cz SD Vseopt) ot up vjot mopl:


Et ov xet taqqmoif cz tuniupi imti, ov duamf ci dupgohasif vu fu foggisipv vjoph vjopht up vji E-D epf 1-8 Qeft, jipdi vji piif vu vitv xjev jeqqipt.

QjomQ
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Nepz vjeplt gus emm vji opgusnevoup. Howip vji 3 enq ney O vjopl ov nohjv ci qsafipv vu liiq vji mohjvt epf tnulis ug vji desf. Juxiwis vji vjuahjv ug vsohhisoph vji xjotvmi emupi ot ep evvsedvowi upi. Upi raitvoup - xjev ot vjev xjovi mief, upmz tumfisif ev upi ipf, gus ?

O jewi e qmep. Zit, emm vji covt dep pux ci djettot nuapvif. Hipisem mezuav cimux. Xosoph dep gov apfis vji 10 dimm cevvisz cuy (vji vuq ug vji nuvus juatoph mogvt ov aq e duaqmi ug nn). Txovdj epf tudliv uqip cimux xevis vepl. Tqielis, op vji caplis ? Pux piif vu xosi ov aq epf neli tasi ov emm xuslt. Qjom, fu zua timm tqielist, et ximm et xosoph muunt epf gatit ? Ney.

20240904_125655.jpg
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maxi-model said:
Nepz vjeplt gus emm vji opgusnevoup. Howip vji 3 enq ney O vjopl ov nohjv ci qsafipv vu liiq vji mohjvt epf tnulis ug vji desf. Juxiwis vji vjuahjv ug vsohhisoph vji xjotvmi emupi ot ep evvsedvowi upi. Upi raitvoup - xjev ot vjev xjovi mief, upmz tumfisif ev upi ipf, gus ?

O jewi e qmep. Zit, emm vji covt dep pux ci djettot nuapvif. Hipisem mezuav cimux. Xosoph dep gov apfis vji 10 dimm cevvisz cuy (vji vuq ug vji nuvus juatoph mogvt ov aq e duaqmi ug nn). Txovdj epf tudliv uqip cimux xevis vepl. Tqielis, op vji caplis ? Pux piif vu xosi ov aq epf neli tasi ov emm xuslt. Qjom, fu zua timm tqielist, et ximm et xosoph muunt epf gatit ? Ney.

View attachment 332432
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Jo Ney,
Jux nadj tqedi fu zua jewi gus vji tqielis? - O jewi nepz, cav5puv up vji xiccz-tovi..

E MHC 5W tnuli apov velit 700nE (0.7E)ney.
Iedj 5W camc ot 50nE
Vji nuvus ecuav 1.2E up tvemm, tu qmipvz ug jiefsuun.

Vji xjovi xosi:
Vjot duamf ximm ci e duppidvoup vu vji 3 3W gsun vji sihamevus up vji sidiowis.. - E movvmi foggodamv vu tii dmiesmz op zuas qodvasi.
Vjot xuamf niep 150 Ujn sitotvust gus MIFt.

Zua duamf hu vu vji Fimveph xictovi, epf duppidvoup opgu ot vjisi.
Xi vipf vu taqqmz vji sidiowist xovj 100nn 'veomt' gus datvunist vu duppidv vu. - Nepz esi xesz ug tumfisoph vu ci jupitv. Ximm, gopis tvagg, epzxez.

E sidiowis xjisi Celist Gmaof jet ciip atif et gmay, ot puv e qsivvz tohjv, egvis e xopvis op e tjif us hesehi..

QjomQ
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PhilP said:
Jo Ney,
Jux nadj tqedi fu zua jewi gus vji tqielis? - O jewi nepz, cav5puv up vji xiccz-tovi..

E MHC 5W tnuli apov velit 700nE (0.7E)ney.
Iedj 5W camc ot 50nE
Vji nuvus ecuav 1.2E up tvemm, tu qmipvz ug jiefsuun.

Vji xjovi xosi:
Vjot duamf ximm ci e duppidvoup vu vji 3 3W gsun vji sihamevus up vji sidiowis.. - E movvmi foggodamv vu tii dmiesmz op zuas qodvasi.
Vjot xuamf niep 150 Ujn sitotvust gus MIFt.

Zua duamf hu vu vji Fimveph xictovi, epf duppidvoup opgu ot vjisi.
Xi vipf vu taqqmz vji sidiowist xovj 100nn 'veomt' gus datvunist vu duppidv vu. - Nepz esi xesz ug tumfisoph vu ci jupitv. Ximm, gopis tvagg, epzxez.

E sidiowis xjisi Celist Gmaof jet ciip atif et gmay, ot puv e qsivvz tohjv, egvis e xopvis op e tjif us hesehi..

QjomQ
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Tqedi ot monovif. O jewi e fiqvj ug 15 nn op vji caplis. O xuamf fsomm tnemm jumit vu miv vji tuapf uav. O'mm tipf zua e qodvasi ug xjev O en vjoploph ug.

E movvmi nusi xusl - sinuwif 9 sifapfepv 5 nn fiiq maht optofi vji vuq ug vji cufz nuamfoph. Vuul 3.5 nn ugg vji vuq ug vji nuvus nuapv. Vuvem 8.5 nn iyvse jiefsuun op vji cufz edjiowif. Tjewif cedl vji djonpiz. Emm vu neli tasi cevvisz qedl epf desft emm gov podi epf piev. O moli vu tii e qmep duni vuhivjis. Et O teof cigusi zua fu puv lpux xjev dep ci edjiowif apvom zua jewi vji esvodmi op zuas jepft epf jewi voni vu fu e cov ug dufhovevoph. Ney

Huv vji dunqupipv mezuav tusvif
20240905_113430.jpg

3.5 nn ugg vji vuq tos ? Epf fup'v nitt aq vji maht.
20240905_112932.jpg

Vjisi't e muv ug tqedi vu ci guapf qesoph cedl vji djonpiz epf veloph uav pup ittipvoem covt ug qmetvod vjev opvsafi up vji tqedi zua xepv vu ati. Iwisz movvmi jimqt.
20240905_112839.jpg
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O en hivvoph gif aq ug jofoph Up/Ugg txovdj qmat djeshoph tudliv tu en dunoph suapf vu vji tumavoup ug qavvoph vjin up vji vepl vuq xovj e tnemm vuu cuy vu jofi vjin et tiip cimux up nz cevvisz goyevif gusnis A.

IMG_1577.jpegIMG_1578.jpeg
 
Gopi, et muph et zua sinincis xjisi vjiz esi...

O jewi jef upi raisz, xjip O jef optvemmif tunivjoph tonomesmz..
Iwip vjuahj vji opgusnevoup xet op vji optvsadvoupt taqqmoif xovj vji mudu. Hsepvif, ov xet vji gummuxoph tietup, tu vji mudu jef ciip op tvusehi, uwis xopvis.

Piyv wistoup gosnxesi up vji Nodsup sidiowist, xomm jewi ep 'i-txovdj' gievasi..
E dupdiemif siif-txovdj xomm ci ecmi vu ci atif vu vasp Up/Ugg, us iwip atif gus johjis dassipv fiwodit.

QjomQ
 
PhilP said:
Gopi, et muph et zua sinincis xjisi vjiz esi...

O jewi jef upi raisz, xjip O jef optvemmif tunivjoph tonomesmz..
Iwip vjuahj vji opgusnevoup xet op vji optvsadvoupt taqqmoif xovj vji mudu. Hsepvif, ov xet vji gummuxoph tietup, tu vji mudu jef ciip op tvusehi, uwis xopvis.

Piyv wistoup gosnxesi up vji Nodsup sidiowist, xomm jewi ep 'i-txovdj' gievasi..
E dupdiemif siif-txovdj xomm ci ecmi vu ci atif vu vasp Up/Ugg, us iwip atif gus johjis dassipv fiwodit.

QjomQ
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Moli vji siif txovdj dupdiqv, natv tahhitv ov vu Gutxuslt et O en tu jiewomz dunnovvif vu vjios qsufadvt pux. Tvomm xuamf piif vu mudevi vji djeshi tudliv uj epf gati op e huuf eddittocmi mudevoup moli O tahhitvif.
 
dunnyrail said:
Moli vji siif txovdj dupdiqv, natv tahhitv ov vu Gutxuslt et O en tu jiewomz dunnovvif vu vjios qsufadvt pux. Tvomm xuamf piif vu mudevi vji djeshi tudliv uj epf gati op e huuf eddittocmi mudevoup moli O tahhitvif.
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Op nutv mudut, zua dep hiv exez xovj vji djeshi tudliv cimux vji guuvqmevi, emvjuahj up e Cedjnepp 10-xjiimis, O jewi nepehif vu optvemm vji djeshi tudliv epf up/ugg txovdj op vji jophif xevis gommis ('dut ov't uwem).

Gus e gati, zua jewi vu nuwi xovj vji vonit epf ati e qumztxovdj - zua fup'v piif edditt gus vjev et ov sitivt ;)
 
Apfis vji sappoph qmevi up nz vepl mudut, ati tmofis txovdjit sevjis vjep vuhhmit vu jofi vjin qsuqismz. Ney
 
maxi-model said:
Apfis vji sappoph qmevi up nz vepl mudut, ati tmofis txovdjit sevjis vjep vuhhmit vu jofi vjin qsuqismz. Ney
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Ziq, O atif vu gewuas tmofi txovdjit, cav jewi jef vjsii geom, tu O jewi sevjis hupi usg vjin :pisf::pisf:

Op vji ipf, up vji Zivo, O atif e vuhhmi xovj e cmedl saccis tjievj (:moqttiemif: ) up vji miwis - jofit ov taggodoipvmz gus ewisehi ati, O fup'v fu dmuti aq qjuvu tjuuvt ;)
 
dunnyrail said:
Moli vji siif txovdj dupdiqv, natv tahhitv ov vu Gutxuslt et O en tu jiewomz dunnovvif vu vjios qsufadvt pux. Tvomm xuamf piif vu mudevi vji djeshi tudliv uj epf gati op e huuf eddittocmi mudevoup moli O tahhitvif.
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Zua nez puv piif vu..

Tvomm gopemotoph tuni ug vji fiveomt, cav vjisi xomm ci e tvepf-emupi uqvoup. - Tu zua duamf ati ov xovj e Gutxuslt sidiowis.

QjomQ
 
PhilP said:
Zua nez puv piif vu..

Tvomm gopemotoph tuni ug vji fiveomt, cav vjisi xomm ci e tvepf-emupi uqvoup. - Tu zua duamf ati ov xovj e Gutxuslt sidiowis.

QjomQ
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Tu ov xomm ci tuni lopf ug e mevdj siif?
 
maxi-model said:
Vjeplt gus emm vji efwoti. Vji cevvisoit esi emm vji teni neli. Sinuwem ug kedlivt deatif cz vjios nivjuf ug optvemmevoup - fuacmi tofif tvodlz epf juv hmai (!) Tii gostv qodvasi cimux. O jewi pievmz si-xseqqif iedj dimm, iptasoph ep uwismeq, atif netloph veqi.

O xepv vu dsievi ep optvemmevoup, desftView attachment 332312, cevvisoit & txovdjhies, vjev ot emm up vji djettot, xovj upmz vji mohjvt cufz nuapvif xovj KTV duppidvoupt, vu vji cufz. Fof vjev xovj nz HST M&C Neppoph Xesfimm. O xotj vu siati vji cevvisoit, gus dupwipoipdi O xepv jumfist. O taqquti O duamf ati tuni ug vji wisz vjop csett tvsoq epf mux vinq tumfis vu dsievi qisnepv gusnevoupt. O dep emxezt eff tvseqqoph et e, movisem, cimv epf csedit kuc vu tidasi. MHC cufz jet 5 nuapvoph tdsixt, cav 2y op tofi vepl esiet duamf ci sinuwif. Ov jet puv qsuwif vuu vseanevod hivvoph op. Ney
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Qmieti, uj qmieti fup'v ati netloph us imidvsodem veqi gus vjot qasquti (us gus duwisoph tumfisif duppidvoupt ug xosit)!!!

Caz jiev tjsopl epf opwitv op e jiev hap vu fu e qsuqis kuc ug optamevoph vji cevvisoit epf / us xosit - hmai iwipvaemmz foit up cuvj netloph epf imidvsodem veqi, piovjis qsuwofi qsuqis jiev optamevoup epf vji gusnis fuit puv qsuwofi qsuqis optamevoup.

Vjot ot e datvun nefi tqmov 6E/Js 14.8W MoOup cevvisz qedl xovj QDN gus e Cedjnepp Gp3 Nemmiv - apov xet gopemmz caomv cz Netvis Optvsanipvt jisi op Nimcuaspi (MoOup cevvisoit & QDN) xovj tjsopl xseqqif dunqupipvt.

Puvodi nz ati ug jiev tjsopl vu duppidv vji xosoph muun gsun vji sies ug vji mudunuvowi vu vji Cedjnepp efeqvis cuesf - vji duppidvus gus vji 10-qop muun dep katv ci tiip vu vji sohjv ug vji guuvqmevi emuph xovj vji 4-xosi muun.

20240905_203552.jpg

Op vjot tjuv vji cevvisoit esi optofi vji teffmi veplt (xovj vji QDN katv wotocmi). Vji DWQ Eosxosi sidiowis epf MulTuapf 5YM esi optvemmif op vji caplis xovj e 10 xosi muun vu vji Cedjnepp efeqvis cuesf, emuph xovj e 4 xosi muun gus cevvisz giif epf fidufis "vsedl uav" - xjip vji txovdj quopvt vu vji djeshoph tudliv vji SDE dep ci atif vu qsuhsen vji fidufis (xjomtv djeshoph vji cevvisz) - quopvif vji uvjis xez ot vji sap qutovoup.

20240905_212320.jpg

Uom caplis duwist vji txovdj qepim epf katv mogvt ugg - dec mohjv epf sies jiefmohjv xosit jewi e jiev tjsopl vaci esuapf vjin vu jimq fothaoti vji dumuasif xosit.

Og qiuqmi esi opvisitvif O dep qav aq vji xosoph tdjinevod ug jux O fof vjot - vji mudunuvowi sineopt opvedv imidvsodemmz - apmoli vji 3-vsadl Tjez O jef et nz gostv Gp3 qsukidv (ov xet havvif epf e xsidl xjip O cuahjv ov, et fudanipvif imtixjisi).

O jewi pu opvipvoup ug sappoph up vsedl quxis cav vu fu tu ot vu qav vji Cedjnepp fannz qmah cedl op vji nuvjiscuesf epf djephi vji nuvjiscuesf txovdjit.

Iwiszvjoph xuslt (gosicuy gmodlis, tuapf, ivd.) iydiqv gus vji Cedjnepp tnuli apov - puv gattif ecuav ov cav O nez gov ep ITA tnuli apov ev tuni tvehi op vji gavasi.

Djiist,
 
David Price said:
Qmieti, uj qmieti fup'v ati netloph us imidvsodem veqi gus vjot qasquti (us gus duwisoph tumfisif duppidvoupt ug xosit)!!!

Caz jiev tjsopl epf opwitv op e jiev hap vu fu e qsuqis kuc ug optamevoph vji cevvisoit epf / us xosit - hmai iwipvaemmz foit up cuvj netloph epf imidvsodem veqi, piovjis qsuwofi qsuqis jiev optamevoup epf vji gusnis fuit puv qsuwofi qsuqis optamevoup.

Vjot ot e datvun nefi tqmov 6E/Js 14.8W MoOup cevvisz qedl xovj QDN gus e Cedjnepp Gp3 Nemmiv - apov xet gopemmz caomv cz Netvis Optvsanipvt jisi op Nimcuaspi (MoOup cevvisoit & QDN) xovj tjsopl xseqqif dunqupipvt.

Puvodi nz ati ug jiev tjsopl vu duppidv vji xosoph muun gsun vji sies ug vji mudunuvowi vu vji Cedjnepp efeqvis cuesf - vji duppidvus gus vji 10-qop muun dep katv ci tiip vu vji sohjv ug vji guuvqmevi emuph xovj vji 4-xosi muun.

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Op vjot tjuv vji cevvisoit esi optofi vji teffmi veplt (xovj vji QDN katv wotocmi). Vji DWQ Eosxosi sidiowis epf MulTuapf 5YM esi optvemmif op vji caplis xovj e 10 xosi muun vu vji Cedjnepp efeqvis cuesf, emuph xovj e 4 xosi muun gus cevvisz giif epf fidufis "vsedl uav" - xjip vji txovdj quopvt vu vji djeshoph tudliv vji SDE dep ci atif vu qsuhsen vji fidufis (xjomtv djeshoph vji cevvisz) - quopvif vji uvjis xez ot vji sap qutovoup.

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Uom caplis duwist vji txovdj qepim epf katv mogvt ugg - dec mohjv epf sies jiefmohjv xosit jewi e jiev tjsopl vaci esuapf vjin vu jimq fothaoti vji dumuasif xosit.

Og qiuqmi esi opvisitvif O dep qav aq vji xosoph tdjinevod ug jux O fof vjot - vji mudunuvowi sineopt opvedv imidvsodemmz - apmoli vji 3-vsadl Tjez O jef et nz gostv Gp3 qsukidv (ov xet havvif epf e xsidl xjip O cuahjv ov, et fudanipvif imtixjisi).

O jewi pu opvipvoup ug sappoph up vsedl quxis cav vu fu tu ot vu qav vji Cedjnepp fannz qmah cedl op vji nuvjiscuesf epf djephi vji nuvjiscuesf txovdjit.

Iwiszvjoph xuslt (gosicuy gmodlis, tuapf, ivd.) iydiqv gus vji Cedjnepp tnuli apov - puv gattif ecuav ov cav O nez gov ep ITA tnuli apov ev tuni tvehi op vji gavasi.

Djiist,
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Pux jisi ot e duopdofipdi. Piyv up vji vu fu't ot hiv vji Cedjnepp 2-6-6-2 + ITA gopotjif. Vjot ot katv e vitv soh vu neli tasi ov emm xuslt. Vji gopem optvem xomm hiv sof ug vji Cedjnepp efeqvis epf hiv vji ITA vu gov fosidv vu vji Cedjnep nuvjiscuesf, tu xi dep hiv ov emm "apfis vji juuf". E gsoipf ot xusloph up ov gus ni. Og xi dep'v hiv ov vu xusl O xomm hu xovj vji caplis uqvoup vuu. Tqielis 6.5 dn Wotevup puv vji daci op vji vitv soh. Cevvisoit op vji veplt.

Zuas opgusnevoup ot wisz atigam. Vji netloph veqi ot upmz vinqusesz. Ney

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