What I know about DCC?

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Sarah Winfield

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It would have been very easy to simply have left this blank! However, I do have a little knowledge but only of a practical sense.

I understand I can run my DCC Stainz with my EZ Command on the analogue address. I haven't tried it but await comments please.

With my controller disconnected from the track and using my AVO meter, when I have the controller on and at any of the addresses, except 10 which is the analogue address, I get a constant AC voltage of about 20. This does not change when I adjust the control knob.

When I go to address 10 and turn the control knob with the meter set to DC I can see the meter's needle moving in line with the amount of rotation.

Why am I stating what to many of you will be obvious? Well after a couple of weeks of being able to plonk my locomotive on my oval of track, this morning following the same procedure I got..........nothing. After a bit of fiddling the locomotive eventually stuttered forward and would run fine in reverse. Unfortunately after this sseccus the locomotive hasn't turned a wheel.

Any printable comments would be welcome please.

Thanks,

Sarah Winfield

My life:- All that it seems may not be as it is!
 
First thought would be dirty track / tyres (bit of wheel which runs on track) / rear-face of wheel (where pickup 'bullets' rub..

Sometimes, 'Turning it off, and turning it back on again' works wonders! :);)
Possibly, leaving everything 'off' and unplugged for 24 hours??

Your tests with the meter are giving you the correct answers..

To run an analogue loco, the 'voltage' must vary in some way..
To run a digital loco, there is 'AC voltage' there all the time, but also 'commands' to tell the decoder what to do..
 
Thank you PhilP.

Not wishing to put you on the spot but simply by setting my controller to address 10 where it says "Analogue Locomotive Operation" I should be able to run my DCC locomotive all things being equal?

Thanks,

Sarah winfield
 
It just seems to go from bad to worse. Now the locomotive won't move on either DC or DCC. I have connected the controller to the power pick-up skids and have power on all wheels on both DC and DCC.
Does this possibly point to a motor problem?

If I were working on my O gauge locomotives I could dismantle and check for possible faults. But this Stainz is totally enclosed. Is it possible to get inside the body to check for faults, please?

I thought my luck was changing but apparently not!

Sarah Winfield
 
You can get inside your Stainz, Sarah - is not the easiest-to-dismantle loco LGB have made, but it can be done. However before you try that, I'd wait and see if anyone else on here comes up with any possible answers that maybe DON'T involve getting in to it......

Jon.
 
Thank you, Jon.

Since my last post the news has got worse. Now, the locomotive does work!.

One might deem this as good news but without knowing why if it happens again I am back to square 1.

Although we have had sunshine for most of the day it remains very cold and uncomfortable so consequently I haven't enjoyed running my trains.

Sarah Winfield
 
I'm a little confused - is your stainz DC or DCC? Why would you want to run a DCC fitted stainz on address 10 - it shouldn't work.

Address 10 on the EZ command doesn't make it output DC to the track, what it does is bend the DCC signal and bias it so the motor in a non-DCC loco sees a DC potential difference and should move (it's called "DCC zero stretching" if you want to read the techie stuff about it). To be honest it's not a good idea to use this facility - in the small scales it is now definitely frowned upon and discouraged as it does the motor no favours at all, it can fry some types of motor quite rapidly! Our large scale motors can cope better with the heat build up, but I really would discourage you from using address 10.

If your stainz really is DCC fitted the decoder shouldn't respond to the zero stretching at all as it can see the actual DCC signal and will be waiting for commands sent to its address.

On some other DCC systems address 0 is used for the same zero stretching function, and on other systems (eg. my NCE gear) the functionality isn't there at all. Either way, don't think of address 10 (or 0) as a DCC address - it's not, it's just the setting the system designer has chosen to mean zero-stretching on that particular controller.
 
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The locomotive is definitely DCC fitted. I wanted to operate it on the address 10 just to make certain the locomotive would in fact run.

As I said in post no 6 it started to run again but I don't know why which is frustrating.

Thank you for those who helped.

Sarah Winfield
 
Sarah,
Does your Stainz loco have a switch in the cab?

If so, move it all the way to the right. Then try each of your numbered positions on your EZ Command system..

If you find a numbered position that runs this loco, then stick a label under the loco, with this number on.
Do the same for any other DCC loco's you have.

How many loco's do you have Sarah?
How many supposedly have a decoder fitted?

As has been stated.. A DCC fitted loco can be configured to run on an analogue track, but NOT usually on a DCC powered track where zero-stretching is being used. - It 'see's' there is a DCC signal, so waits for commands.

If it is configured so it WILL run on an analogue track, it must be real analogue. - Else all the loco's on a DCC track (with decoders) would move if you used zero stretching to give 'pseudo DC' for an analogue loco.
 
Do you still have a simple DC-only power supply/controller? Even just a smallish one that will deliver about half an amp at 12 volts?
Ideally it should be one that delivers a "pure" variable DC voltage, rather than one that uses pulse width modulation (PWM) to achieve speed control.

If you have such a thing from your other railway-related hobbies, then you could try using that to test the Stainz on analogue.

It's actually quite handy to have a small LGB DC power pack such as a 50080 kicking around, even if you normally use DCC, as there will be times when you want to test something on good old analogue DC; the 50080 will supply a full 1 amp (as opposed to some of the starter set controllers which are only half an amp), which is plenty to run a single-motor loco with a train, and to at least test a two-motor one as a light engine.
If you look around, these useful little all-in-one transformer/controller units can often be picked up for between ten and twenty quid.

Jon.
 
PhipP to answer your question:-
There is no switch in the cab. From the attached photograph you will see the decoder seems to be a retrofit installed in the cab (but removed for the pic).
I know the address of this locomotive is 2
I have 4 DCC locomotives. Three Stainz and one LGB22620. They are all set to different addresses and I know which is which but I will identify them as you suggest.
I have not attempted to run the other locomotives. Two were purchased from a specialist garden railway model shop and address set by them. The other locomotive was purchased from the internet and I have no reason to doubt it works on address 3.

I simply dare not try these locomotives because there is every chance things will conspire against me. Better to be ignorant of the truth than have it proved for me.

Zerogee, yes I do have a Gaugemaster series P analogue controller.
So rather than use address 10 (the analogue address) on my EZ, would I be better to use my Gaugemaster, to run DC locomotives if I want to test one?

Thank you for your help.

Sarah Winfield
 

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Sarah Winfield said:
Zerogee, yes I do have a Gaugemaster series P analogue controller.
So rather than use address 10 (the analogue address) on my EZ, would I be better to use my Gaugemaster, to run DC locomotives if I want to test one?
Click to expand...

Definitely! :)

Re the Stainz..
There seems a lot of wires in that-there cab.. There are more 'elegant' ways of fitting an after-market decoder to a Stainz. :nerd::nod::nod:

If your meter has a continuity setting.. - It 'bleeps' when the probes are touched together.
You could 'bell-out' the connections from the wheels / skates to the decoder track connections.

A little difficult to see the decoder model, but if not sound, then an eMotion L I would think?

upload_2018-5-3_20-58-6.jpeg
(courtesy of Glendale Junction)

You can see the track connections (GL+ and GL-) in the middle at the left of the picture above..
 
What I know about DCC.

Enough to know that I've never seen it do all it is claimed to do.
All the folks I know that use it, are always seemingly trouble shooting.
Worse still, at exhibitions, the only thing I get to see is a few trains tail chasing......
and, the inevitable rear end collisions when the operator presses the wrong button, and the wrong train stops.

After more than 50 years in this game, anything more than a DPDT switch is a waste.... OK, I might
extend to diode control safety blocks. Keep it simple.
 
Yes Gavin, you have told us that time and time again.

You like what you like, we like what we like. Can we leave it there? There is no need for you to keep telling us what you have said many, many times.
 
Hi Sarah, When I end up in a puzzling DCC situation I go back to the beginning (as far as possible). Did your system previously work? Did you program the Loco to address 2? Are you able to "read back" the CV settings through your systems? Are you able to apply a pure DC (not DCC) voltage to the track and run your loco? If your Stainz has a DCC chip, do you know the make and model ie. do you have a CV table for it?
 
Let me go a little further. The decoder in my LGB Stainz is a Lenz V230 L1.

My other two 0-4-0 locomotives are in fact marked Marklin. What I have noticed is the LGB locomotive has a black oblong "something" between the driving wheels. This is not apparent on the two Marklin models.

Might I ask what this could be please?

Sarah Winfield
 
It may be a magnet. These are often attached after market. The material usually looks like the back of a fridge magnet.
 
Apologies Sarah, just read your initial post again after morning coffee (here in Sydney) and see everything was working well previously. I would still try to read back the CV settings from your Lenz chip. Have you been doing any programming recently? Why do you run your chipped Loco in analogue? That wouldn't work on my system at all.
 
I don't want to cause any disharmony here.

I hadn't changed anything on my locomotive since I took it off the track last evening. I simply put it back on the track this morning and for some reason my problems started.

Tomorrow morning I'll try again.

Thank you all for your help and comments.

Sarah Winfield
 
Try your meter on the track.. - Then you know you have power to the track.
 
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