Can we get back onto the Blue batteries for a minute

Zerogee said:
Reading all this, I'm kind of glad that for the present at least, I'm sticking with track power and DCC...... ;) ;) ;)

Does anyone still use good old-fashioned sealed lead-acid batteries anymore? I know they're heavy and (relatively) bulky, but nosing round the ones in Rapid's retail shop turned up some that could quite easily be fitted into a large square diseasel, like a 2095 for us Euro bods or pretty much anything US-profile.....?

Jon.
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Tend to agree - Digital now looks easy!
 
tramcar trev said:
Looking at the lable on the "blue battery" it says" super polymer Lithium ion battery" model DC1248A ( DC 12 V 4.8 Ah) .... So the blue batteries are lions not lipos. Now I feel comfortable unwrapping Lions but not LiPos http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rechargeable-Li-po-4800mAh-Battery-DC-4-CCTV-Cam-12V-/390716438185?pt=AU_Electronics_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item5af883b6a9&_uhb=1
But as I say I have 4 x double AA Lions ready to wire up...
Ok so maybe the ESC does not like the battery chemistry though how it would know is beyond me. The reason I guess they are preferred is because of their cell voltage, to get 12V in NiMh is going to be a big pack... 10 cells.... and NIMH's self discharge. Lions are reasonably stable but easily destroyed by over discharging them....

Hands Up those who have used these blue batteries with complete success with R/C and let me know what sort of ESC you are using....
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Yep - I use these. I have four locos powered by them with Deltang combined Rx/ESCs. These locos are working fine (so far). They retain their charge (even over the winter) and give a longer and more sustained output than the two locos powered by NiMh. Of the six blue batteries I've bought, two have turned out to be duff. On both the duffs, one cell has given up. Not sure if it's the electronics or the cell which has gone kaput. The other two cells in both these batteries are fine so I'm keeping them in reserve in case I want something powered with 8 volts (or thereabouts). I had thought about combining them but, although the Ah for the two batteries are the same, the physical dimensions of the cells differ and the electronics look different, so I'm loath to join them up. Given their cost (around £10-£15 in postage from China), I'm going to stick with them until something as or more cost effective comes along.

I usually strip them out of their cardboard cases - so I can squeeze them into the available space. I try to protect them from accidental damage as much as possible though. Here's the end of one squeezed into the tanks of my Southwold 2-4-2.
IMG_6223.JPG


Rik

Rik
 
Hi

I'm new to using Lithium batteries but am very sceptical of the capacities of those sold on Ebay, 4400, 5300 mAmp hours etc., it doesn't seem possible when the main supplies can't achieve this. The best way is to test them so I've recently bought an 18650 one that meets my size requirements and doesn't give an outrageous capacity. It wasn't the cheapest by far but a named manufacturer.

Testing is simple, charge as specified. Initially I used a 1 amp constant current power supply set to 4.2 volts and terminated the charge when the current reduced to about 100mA (3% of rated capacity). I then bought one of those USB chargers that did the same thing automatically, they seem to work well.

Discharge is more complicated as if the battery hasn't low discharge protection you don't want to go below say 3.3 volts. This was achieved using some load resistors from Maplin and the timer on my oven being constantly set to 10 minutes!

So far so good, my battery is giving about 2.4 Amp hours against a quoted 3 Amp. This is what I expected. I bet if I bought one of those UltraFire ones on Ebay at 4000 mAh I would get less.

Has anyone done any similar test on your "blue" batteries?

Michael
 
Most importantly don't try and "float charge" Li - ion batteries.. Once they are up to voltage the charge should cease....
Read more here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries.

Did someone mention fake "ultrafire" batteries???

See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfK6B8yDTY8
I have been using my bench power supply but I'm thinking of buying one of these; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/iMAX-B6-Lipo-NiMh-Li-ion-Ni-Cd-RC-Battery-Balance-Digital-Charger-Discharger-/351010601428?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item51b9dcb9d4&_uhb=1

But I have no idea if its genuine or not.....
 
I use a clone of this charger. The instruction manual and the functions are exactly the same as the iMax B6. Had it a couple of years now and not had a problem with it (so far).

Rik
 
Well, solved my problem over the weekend. Turned out to be a duff terminal block (one of those white multiple unit things rated for 240V); have no idea why that should cause a voltage drop unless there was some horrendous resistance in it (which doesn't show on the multimeter) but replacing it has fixed the problem. Another (semi) satisfied customer in grandson number 2 who was not happy his new favourite outline loco wasn't available - Thomas now being passe as not prototypical enough, at age 3 1/2....
 
Spoz said:
Well, solved my problem over the weekend. Turned out to be a duff terminal block (one of those white multiple unit things rated for 240V); have no idea why that should cause a voltage drop unless there was some horrendous resistance in it (which doesn't show on the multimeter) but replacing it has fixed the problem. Another (semi) satisfied customer in grandson number 2 who was not happy his new favourite outline loco wasn't available - Thomas now being passe as not prototypical enough, at age 3 1/2....
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Spoz from practical experience of using those terminal blocks hanging upside down in a ceiling installing security or CCTV systems the biggest issue is clamping down onto the wire's insulation, when crushed there is enough contact to allow some continuity but produce a high resistive joint, bit like a poor solder joint with a resin bond not exactly an open but not a short as well. The terminal block or any mechanical connection eg crimps was always the first one I checked.
 
GAP said:
Spoz from practical experience of using those terminal blocks hanging upside down in a ceiling installing security or CCTV systems the biggest issue is clamping down onto the wire's insulation, when crushed there is enough contact to allow some continuity but produce a high resistive joint, bit like a poor solder joint with a resin bond not exactly an open but not a short as well. The terminal block or any mechanical connection eg crimps was always the first one I checked.
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Makes sense thanks. I've been using them for various low volatage applications for years and have had few problems but not I must admit normally in voltage critical situations and I've usually been careful to ensure I didn't contact the insulation; obviously wasn't careful enough. Good news is that it was just about the first thing I tried!
 
This is on an Add Banner on GSC, its blue, compact and only $8.50...
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8932&gclid=CJvBk4rd4r4CFVCVvQodEq4A1A
 
I've followed this thread sparingly. These blue batteries used to be easy to get from China on Evilbay at very good prices. I have had very good results with them. Each one comes with it's own charger, the Wall Wart type. The only supplier I know of in the States is Allbattery.com. I don't see these on their site. The blue batteries have their niche and it would be too bad if I couldn't get more in the future.
 
That's something to think about. I suspect that by sea there would be no or much less concern.
 
Something else to think about is the "C" rating. All pure hypothesis really but to get the max current drain you can put on these you multiply the C rating by the AH capacity e.g. a battery with a 20C x 2.5Ah capacity should allow you to draw 45 amps (or did I do that incorrectly).
Anyway the Blue Battery that I removed the excess packaging form must be around a 1C rating as the best I can draw from it is 4.8amps. If the temperature is below 15c it will give hardly enough to run My steam tram. So the ner ner ner is on me, yes you told me so, crappy battery, gives full voltage but wont release its current unless its warmed up. This could also be a function of Q1 on the pcb which is some sort of thermal device to shut things down if the battery gets too hot...
Mind you this may only be the battery that I HAVE Chinese QC can be a bit suss....
 
On a slightly different note, used one of these blue battery packs to do a r/c conversion 2 years back now. Came to recharge the other day after a running session and my recharge plug seems to have broke. When plugged into the mains and not connected to the loco the red light normally shows, but nothing is lit. And neither the red nor green light work when connected to the battery.

Does anybody know where i could get a replacement charger? Can i get them on their own on ebay?
 
matthew said:
On a slightly different note, used one of these blue battery packs to do a r/c conversion 2 years back now. Came to recharge the other day after a running session and my recharge plug seems to have broke. When plugged into the mains and not connected to the loco the red light normally shows, but nothing is lit. And neither the red nor green light work when connected to the battery.

Does anybody know where i could get a replacement charger? Can i get them on their own on ebay?
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I don't think so....I have looked as I had a dud one ended up buying another battery with charger....
If you can solder it may well be worth the investment to make up your own pack using these cells; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-2-4-10pcs-18650-3-7V-4900mAh-Rechargeable-Li-ion-Battery-For-UltraFire-Torch-/141288966535?pt=AU_Electronics_Batteries_Chargers&var&hash=item20e57a8987&_uhb=1
then charge with a balance charger;
Wire the batteries up as shown here to use a balance charger....
 
ballance charger connections.jpg
Cell connections for to enable "balanced" charging
 
BTW - I've found what claims to be a UK seller for the blue batteries (6.8Ah).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171327297905

I've just sent off for one - will let you know if/when/how it arrives

Rik
 
ge_rik said:
BTW - I've found what claims to be a UK seller for the blue batteries (6.8Ah).
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171327297905

I've just sent off for one - will let you know if/when/how it arrives

Rik
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That is the same as the one I "unwrapped"..... If space is tight then that is a worthwhile exercise.
If the postage was high it probably will come in a special explosion containment device....

I found a detailed explanation as to why these batteries cant be shipped by air and it was some bureaucratic nonsense that as these are "non vented' in non pressurised aircraft they can have the foil cases distended and allow the contents to come into contact with air which can cause spontaneous combustion. Ok sounds reasonable but by international treaty all cargo has to travel in a pressurised hull since 2004... As usual one hand does not know what the other is doing.... Animals travel in the cargo compartment if it was not pressurised they would surely expire. Too many dichotomies (my BIG word for the day) in this exercise to allow any common sense to prevail.... I have had no trouble with these being flown to Australia apart from the ones that end up in Austria which cant be redirected....
I'm going to unwrap mine and as per the sketch above rewire them for balanced charging and I'm going to UP the voltage by making mine 4 cell. Rewrap in self amalgamating silicone tape with a separate on/off switch and the charging socket under the tram... Safer than soldering non tagged 18650 cells though a lot of people do this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nehZgiYV7uY
 
tramcar trev said:
Cell connections for to enable "balanced" charging
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Now that's useful - together with the video. I'm wondering if I can make one decent battery out of the two duff ones I have. I have a balance charger but I need to get hold of one of those 4-way plugs - my charger has 2-. 3-, 4-, 5-, and 6-way balance charging sockets on the side presumably for up to 6S batteries

Rik
BTW - any idea how you can tell which of the pins in the socket is no.1?
 
ge_rik said:
Now that's useful - together with the video. I'm wondering if I can make one decent battery out of the two duff ones I have. I have a balance charger but I need to get hold of one of those 4-way plugs - my charger has 2-. 3-, 4-, 5-, and 6-way balance charging sockets on the side presumably for up to 6S batteries

Rik
BTW - any idea how you can tell which of the pins in the socket is no.1?
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Well if you have a balance charger already and you connect it to a battery then the No1 (- pin) would connect to the - terminal on the battery you may have to do a bit of poking around or use a meter because the - pins for charge and discharge are commoned. and you would know the power - lead... As for leads have a squizz at this lot; http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_sop=15&_nkw=balance%20charger%20leads&_fscr=1

A bit more searching and you can find the plugs and sockets to make your own.....
 
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