GARDEN RAILWAY CONSTRUCTION: TOP FIVE MYTHS EXPOSED ABOUT ELECTRIC POWER OUTDOOR

Tony Walsham said:
If there were no problems with track power, all the battery R/C ESC makers would simply not exist.;)
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Not nessecelery - battery power gives you some advantages over simple electrics if you don't want to join the realy dark side of DCC.

Even some of the hardline DCC supporters like Mr Duffy have problems with the occasional emission of the magic smoke. Whereas you can have similar experiences in the battery department, it's a question of each to their own.

I mix track with battery power - but I wouldn't touch DCC. That's just the way it is.
 
Its a mixed school here on GSC.:)
 
I run DCC, Analogue, Battery power and Live Steam.

Battery power is great for just getting something up and running quickly and without fuss.
Live steam is great for that authentic sound, feel, smell etc,
I still have a couple of analogue loco's that I run on channel 0 on DCC (they will get either "batteryfied" or chipped at some stage, but no rush, they work fine as they are for now).
DCC is great for a "feature rich" experience (all the bells and whistles with completely independent control of your locos and accessories).

Each method of power and control has its merits and downfalls but I don't mind that. Just get out there an run something, doesn't matter how you power it. Enjoy :)
 
Of all the G-scalers up here in the North Essex/South Suffolk area who run open days in the summer months, I can only think of one offhand who runs all battery power; all the others use track power, either DC or DCC (or in some cases both). Whether that is generally reflected in the membership of this forum, I don't know (several folks have already posted on this thread about having both battery and track power) - I'm only going by the people I personally know in this area.
If you looked at the 16mil fraternity, on the other hand, then I think there you'd find many more people with a battery loco or two - simply because those folks normally run live steam and just use a battery RC loco for when they can't be bothered to steam up (or for a quick run when there isn't time to coddle a live steamer into life).

Speaking entirely from my personal point of view, I can see many of the attractions of battery power and dead rails - but I also like the degree of control that DCC gives over the loco, especially in the sound department. That's why, for me, a multi-mode "touring loco" is an ideal solution for visiting other peoples' lines - one that, at the flick of a couple of DPDT switches, can be all things - battery driven but with full DCC control (via a Stanton Radio Cab so that the hosting line doesn't need a DCC central station), track powered DCC, and even track powered DC. This is exactly the outcome of Cliff's work with the Tam Valley DRS, and which I now have all the bits to build except for some free time.... ;)

Jon.
 
I think a major factor is whether or not you run any live steam. When I run a live steam loco round my track for 20 mins, the rails are left coated with a mixture of oil and squashed ants. This is a great insulator and would have to be removed before any track powered locos could be run.

Another factor is whether you want to run multiple locos at the same time. At open days I go to, there are commonly two or more locos running on the same circuit and controlled by different people. This is impossible with trackpower DC which is operationally much more limiting.

Another factor is sound. MyLocoSound soundcards will run on DC trackpower and many of my customers use this combination. However, the triggering of sounds is limited and often relies on magnets placed in the track. DCC gives complete flexibility but at a price. Battery radio control can be a good compromise which gives the ability to trigger sounds realistically under the driver's control.

Upgrading a substantial loco fleet to battery radio control is certainly expensive. An attractive alternative, used by many, is to put the battery, radio control and soundcard into a van and couple it to locos which are modified only to add a two pin socket at the rear to connect the motor to the van. Your locos will still run under DC trackpower but it gives you the flexibility to run trains at short notice without cleaning the track, to have controllable sound and to take your locos to run on other railways.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
 
Jeeze, the poor guy revives a year old thread, and then says he got his track power working with little effort.

So instead of congratulating him, Tony comes out with his gloom and doom prediction, "just wait"...

Well, 10 years here track power DCC and I'm still waiting... it works... Track power is impossible according to many battery power people, it seems especially so to someone who makes his living with battery power.

Why not just say hi, welcome, and we are all happy your track power worked with little effort and you can enjoy your trains...

Greg
 
Rhinochugger said:
Yep, with Aristo screwed fishplates there's no need for rail clamps.

And another thing - wot about all of the broken rail clamps where you've tightened them up a bit tooooooooooooooooo much O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0
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Ref the Broken Railclamp thing, not sure which tupe you are refering to. However I have managed to trash a few Hillman ones in my time, mostly it has to be said those that are the 'Over Fishplate' Type. Thus far I have always managed to repair them by removing carefully the Broken Screw with a pair of Pliers and using a replacement one. Someone on here or perhaps Mad linked a suppler of Hillman Type Screws. Perhaps someone could give us a UK Supplier Link.

As for Battery, I now have a fleet of 4 Prime Movers, a Shunter and a PWay Trolley. All have proved their worth with my line Operating a 3-4 Hour Timetable last Year when my Massoth Base Station had to do a round trip to Germany. Have to say for casual visitors not having to clean the Track and runs some Trains is a great benefit. However I do lust for the Massoth DRC System, sadly not mentioned much any more.
JonD
 
martin.retired said:
Thanks to everyone for a very enlightening discussion. Such strongly held views and passion. Great stuff! I followed the thread because after 10 years of live steam and battery power, I'm attempting to try track power on my 45mm Peco garden railway (with standard rail joiners). This has been prompted by the arrival of Thomas and friends, and my grandchildren finally showing a bit of interest. I couldn't bring myself to attempt to convert Thomas (his eyes seemed to be watching me), so I though I'd have a go through the track with the supplied analogue controller. Much to my surprise he ran quite smoothly over most of my railway - after my usual going over with a plastic scourer on the end of a stick, and soldering the primary electrical connection. He performed best on sections where I hadn't touched anything for many years (ie not breaking the electrical connection). I've now spent a day replacing some sections and generally levelling things up. I've put a secondary power feed about half-way round, but I don't think it was actually necessary. My initial go at track power is a success so far. Why didn't I try it before?
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Glad to hear it was successful. Clearly people will do what works for them and that is the way it should be; there are few hard and fast rules in garden railways. I converted my Thomas to battery so he could be run without cleaning the track if the little ones come round and wanted to play. I can also run him in the conservatory without any track on wet days.

My big locos will remain be track powered but my small ones are now battery powered. This is the solution that suits me. I haven't found a problem running track power after running a live steamer, but I think some steamies leave more deposits than others.

My oldest track has been down about 15/16 years, I use a soft abrasive Garryflex block for track cleaning and everything works fine. I had to lift the oldest track for some tree removal work and found that a few of the original rail joiners were a bit tired so I replaced them with Massoth clamps which I like (once I had worked out how to fit them). I will not replace rail joiners unless a problem occurs. Track left alone seems to work fine for many many years.

A large, heavy loco with loads of pick ups will of course always run better on dirty track than a light 0-4-0 so while I do run some battery R/C this is mainly to achieve smooth slow running over points and dirty bits of track with short wheelbase locos. Battery power also great for an impromptu session in the winter months but track does seem to work fine for a long time after cleaning, especially in the winter months.

I'm still waiting for a major problem with track power after 16 years.
 
If there was a single solution which was clearly far better for most users then everyone would use it. The fact there isn't shows that no one solution works for everyone. By all means relate how your chosen solution (or solutions) works for you, but no bandwagons please.
 
Moonraker said:
I think a major factor is whether or not you run any live steam. When I run a live steam loco round my track for 20 mins, the rails are left coated with a mixture of oil and squashed ants. This is a great insulator and would have to be removed before any track powered locos could be run.
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Peter, perhaps your ants are more prolific and like commiting harikari on the Tracks. Have to say on my line I do mix Live Steam and Electrics with few problems. Though to be fair I do not run Stainz and the like, most of my locs are Big Harz and Mallett Types so plenty of pick ups for Track Power. I do have a couple of the small LGB Kof's as a Station pilots. These appear to work fine as well with slightly grubby track. But if I have any problems, out comes the LGB Track Rubber. The best that Money can buy, even with Massoth Replacement Pads. I have as seen in one of my other threads converted my LGB 99-5001 to Battery Power as it was just hopeless on DCC Track Power in the Garden. Though I know that many run these and Stainz with complete success. Must be my Dodgy Track Clamps!
JonD
 
Jon Peter is right remember we live Downunder sometimes the ants have been known to get together and run off with the odd engine they are big buggers as Tony said nature will get you every time!!!!!;););)
 
Interesting spread of opinion on the merits or otherwise of the various means of powering locos.
I use track power (analogue) and live steam like several others of you and whilst the oldest sections of my track are only 5 years old, I have not experienced any problems with loss of continuity, even where slide on fish-plates are used; conductive grease applied liberally seems to be the answer. I will admit that the track does need cleaning fairly regularly but its not all deposits from LS locos, deposits from trees and bushes, and the local bird life make a substantial contribution; they always manage to perch in exactly the right place to score direct hits on the rails!
Yes dirty track and non-powered sections of point work do cause the occasional hesitation, especially so with 4 wheel locos and the push-pull set directional lamps, which whilst being LEDs, use track power and have been known to flash on and off rather than flicker!
I appreciate the merits of battery power and in fact have a plan to battery power, with R/C, a GRS Hunslet when I get around to building it.
I do use DCC elsewhere, When the new indoor 4mm GWR themed layout was being planned, getting on for 20 years ago, I decided to go digital and invested in Lenz equipment which was the 'thing' at the time and is still going strong with assorted manufacture's decoders fitted in 21 locos and 2 railcars. I do not, however, use sound cards and have no real desire to do so.
Likewise I have no desire to use DCC in the garden, but I will probably try an analogue sound card in one of the 2 diesels to see what its like, and if successful may well try a steam card, probably in the Stainz, as that topic has been well documented elsewhere on this Forum, and then...............:smirk:
As was stated previously, each to their own and that's mine!:)
 
chris m01 said:
Glad to hear it was successful. Clearly people will do what works for them and that is the way it should be; there are few hard and fast rules in garden railways. I converted my Thomas to battery so he could be run without cleaning the track if the little ones come round and wanted to play. I can also run him in the conservatory without any track on wet days.

My big locos will remain be track powered but my small ones are now battery powered. This is the solution that suits me. I haven't found a problem running track power after running a live steamer, but I think some steamies leave more deposits than others.

My oldest track has been down about 15/16 years, I use a soft abrasive Garryflex block for track cleaning and everything works fine. I had to lift the oldest track for some tree removal work and found that a few of the original rail joiners were a bit tired so I replaced them with Massoth clamps which I like (once I had worked out how to fit them). I will not replace rail joiners unless a problem occurs. Track left alone seems to work fine for many many years.

A large, heavy loco with loads of pick ups will of course always run better on dirty track than a light 0-4-0 so while I do run some battery R/C this is mainly to achieve smooth slow running over points and dirty bits of track with short wheelbase locos. Battery power also great for an impromptu session in the winter months but track does seem to work fine for a long time after cleaning, especially in the winter months.

I'm still waiting for a major problem with track power after 16 years.
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What batteries did you use in Thomas?
 
Not really any more opinions to add than have already been stated here but thought I could offer some of my own experiences. Been volunteering at a local model village with a g scale railway for around a year or so now. Until this Easter when I re-laid it all they used Peco track, joined with conventional fish plates. This has lasted over 21 years and had never caused any issues electrically. The reason for the replacement was that some of the track itself had started to wear and cause regular derailments. for the past few years it has used the Bachmann Thomas stock, and has run for around 7 hours a day, 7 days a week all year round. A track cleaning car is all that's required to keep everything serviceable.

However, despite this testament to electric 2-rail power, as I am beginning to build my own stock, I'm building batteries and RC into them. Why? Just because it's what I want and what I think will suit my plans the best.

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