LGB 28002

[LGB-Sid]

So I now own one as well but I now have a question it all lights up smokes and makes lots of noise but the only function button that operates anything on my LGB 55016P handset is F1 for whistle decoder and hand set set to 2.

I have put the loco on my programming track with the Sprog II to read the decoder but it won't read it , not sure it likes the "what ever it is " that is storing power in the loco it switches off and says there is a short on the programming track . Has anybody read this Loco with a sprog II ?

 

[idlemarvel]

Does it have a power buffer? Normally you have to disconnect that if you want to use programming track. I say normally as if it is a Massoth power cap and a Massoth decoder they have a third lead that allows the decoder to turn it off automatically. But assuming it isn't is there a switch somewhere to isolate it? Do you know anything about the innards from the previous owner?
Dave

 

[LGB-Sid]

Found that if you turn the switch inside the cab to position one it turns the power buffer and everything off, so the Sprog will read the decoder. It's has the original factory fitted LGB decoder and sound but no idea what it is, the Sprog now wants me to chose which the decoder is from the following I suppose it's try each one in turn till I get settings that allow control of the sounds.

 

[Zerogee]

So I now own one as well but I now have a question it all lights up smokes and makes lots of noise but the only function button that operates anything on my LGB 55016P handset is F1 for whistle decoder and hand set set to 2.

I have put the loco on my programming track with the Sprog II to read the decoder but it won't read it , not sure it likes the "what ever it is " that is storing power in the loco it switches off and says there is a short on the programming track . Has anybody read this Loco with a sprog II ?

What is the age of the loco, Sid? First and last digits on the little gold sticker, if it's still there.....
Just thinking that it might have an old serial sound board, so would require you to put your MTS handset into serial mode in order to operate anything except function 1.

Jon.

 

[idlemarvel]

Found that if you turn the switch inside the cab to position one it turns the power buffer and everything off, so the Sprog will read the decoder. It's has the original factory fitted LGB decoder and sound but no idea what it is, the Sprog now wants me to chose which the decoder is from the following I suppose it's try each one in turn till I get settings that allow control of the sounds.

View attachment 236381

You get this list because SPROG / DecoderPro is just reading CV8 to get manufacturer id and (old) LGB and PIKO use Massoth technology so return the same value (123). If you can read CV255 it will tell you if it is a Massoth decoder and if so what model.

Note that SPROG / DecoderPro will probably not be able to tell if there is a sound module attached via SUSI (like a PIKO or Uhlenbrock/DIETZ sound module) or a sound decoder attached "in parallel" (directly to track power) like Massoth S or LGB sound module. If it turns out to be a Massoth LS or XLS (combined motor and sound decoder) you will be okay.

If you set the switch to position 0 can you still read CVs? That might mean you have a separate sound only decoder installed direct to track power. But I think at the end of the day you will have to open up the loco to see what's installed inside if the previous owner can't tell you. Depending on what you find will determine how to go about programming the sound. If you can't identify the components inside take a picture and someone here will be able to.

Dave

 

[LGB-Sid]

What is the age of the loco, Sid? First and last digits on the little gold sticker, if it's still there.....
Just thinking that it might have an old serial sound board, so would require you to put your MTS handset into serial mode in order to operate anything except function 1.

Jon.

The sticker says 001080, the gear box says 1996 embossed in to it that helps.

 

[LGB-Sid]

You get this list because SPROG / DecoderPro is just reading CV8 to get manufacturer id and (old) LGB and PIKO use Massoth technology so return the same value (123). If you can read CV255 it will tell you if it is a Massoth decoder and if so what model.

Note that SPROG / DecoderPro will probably not be able to tell if there is a sound module attached via SUSI (like a PIKO or Uhlenbrock/DIETZ sound module) or a sound decoder attached "in parallel" (directly to track power) like Massoth S or LGB sound module. If it turns out to be a Massoth LS or XLS (combined motor and sound decoder) you will be okay.

If you set the switch to position 0 can you still read CVs? That might mean you have a separate sound only decoder installed direct to track power. But I think at the end of the day you will have to open up the loco to see what's installed inside if the previous owner can't tell you. Depending on what you find will determine how to go about programming the sound. If you can't identify the components inside take a picture and someone here will be able to.

Dave

When I said , set the switch to position one I meant all the way to the left so it's position "0" I suppose with it all turned off it reads CV's The sound module is what ever LGB factory fitted as standard to this loco,. The decoder part of it I assume it was factory fitted as well ? as the instructions for the Loco say if you have an MTS system you can control the following functions from the hand set and it lists the functions.

 

[Zerogee]

The sticker says 001080, the gear box says 1996 embossed in to it that helps.

The 1996 part is just the copyright date of that particular gearbox moulding design, last revised in 1996 when they were introducing the "D" four-pin gearbox in preparation for the introduction of MTS a couple of years later.... the important bit is the gold sticker number, where the "0....0" indicates a loco built in 2000 - so yes, a very early MTS factory install, it will most likely have a first-generation 55020 decoder and probably a serial-only sound board; you need to check your MTS manual and find how to toggle your handset into serial command mode (it can easily be done, I just can't recall how) when operating that loco. You SHOULD then get full control over all the sounds.....

Jon.

 

[PhilP]

You can try pulsing the F1 key a number of times..
Serial sends 'F1' n-times to activate things.. Hence there will be a delay whilst it counts, and pauses for 'any more?' If you have the original instruction sheet, it will give the function numbers for various sounds.

This can be a bit hit or miss, trying to get the right number of pulses, and timing..

 

[idlemarvel]

If you can read CVs with switch set to position 0 then you have some kind of independent sound only decoder fitted. Whether that's an LGB sound module or a Massoth S for example you could tell by trying to read CV255.

Without identifying correctly what you are trying to program you are flying in the dark. I still recommend you open up the loco to see what has been installed.

 

[Zerogee]

If you can read CVs with switch set to position 0 then you have some kind of independent sound only decoder fitted. Whether that's an LGB sound module or a Massoth S for example you could tell by trying to read CV255.

Without identifying correctly what you are trying to program you are flying in the dark. I still recommend you open up the loco to see what has been installed.

The OP (Sid) said it's a factory-installed sound board, Dave - which, given the build date, is why I suspect it's a serial-only board. The decoder will be an early factory-install too, most likely a 55020, which would be best swapped out for the far superior Massoth L - though this isn't a priority job unless you find it doesn't run well through the curves!

The fact that only F1 (whistle) is responding is another clear sign that the sound board needs serial commands, but the MTS handset is currently sending parallel ones; there is a simple method of toggling the handset between parallel and serial, but it's so long since I had my MTS2 that I can't recall what it is - it's only a couple of button-pushes though......

Jon.

 

[idlemarvel]

The OP (Sid) said it's a factory-installed sound board, Dave - which, given the build date, is why I suspect it's a serial-only board.
Jon.

I missed that bit Jon. What are they (part number?) and are they programmable?

 

[stockers]

Dont think they had a part number - they were 'built in'.

 

[LGB-Sid]

I Switched the Handset over to Serial Mode confirmed by watching the light flash the same amount of times as the number of the button pushed, it didn't seem to make any difference I still just get the whistle on F1. The Boiler front comes off easy to access the dip switches on this model, so I had a look inside the main sound board is defiantly the factory fitted board as per no 65 on the diagram below, What decoder is fitted to the board it's impossible to say you can't see enough of it to work it out, even though it sits at the very front just behind screw 91 and clips onto the main board.. One thing I have noticed is the smoker leaks and the decoder board does have smoke fluid on it which I assume won't do it any good.

 

[Zerogee]

Hmmm, OK, I'm surprised that the serial option didn't work..... anybody else got any ideas?

The drawing of the sound board shows the seven plug-in sockets for the pins on a 55020/55021 decoder (or the physically similar Massoth L) - given the age of the loco I'd be 99% sure it'll be a 55020, the 55021 didn't come out for another year or two after the loco was built.

Sorry I can't offer any more suggestions about the sound commands.

Jon.

 

[idlemarvel]

The manual for 28002 says it is decoder ready not decoder fitted so presumably a previous owner has fitted a decoder. The manual makes no reference to programming the sound card. Somewhere there must be a document that says if it is possible and if so how but I can't find it. My LOK book say the factory fitted sound card has 'MTS functions' which implies it has CV settings. I'm not being much help, we need someone who's been here before.

 

[LGB-Sid]

Got a bit further If you un-clip the wires from the front of the sound board inside the boiler you can then gently lift the decoder off the mounting pins and lift it out of the boiler The Loco it is fitted with a LGB 55021 , the label on the decoder says 014200 below that 8.837160.2 and the last number 11566. and you can with care fit the decoder back again

Lights crap in my office useless LED bulbs so it will be tomorrow in the daylight when I see if reading it on the SPOG as a 55021 helps or not.

 

[MTheStrong]

Hi LGB_Sid,

Please find below a copy of the operating instructions for the loco. I note that the internal switch should be at Position 3 and also that if the loco has not been used for a while the sound can be erratic.



THE MODEL
This detailed replica features:
- weather-resistant construction
- opening cab doors
- four-way power control switch
- protected gearbox with seven-
pole Bühler motor
- eight powered wheels
- one traction tire
- eight power pickups
- digital electronic sound:
- synchronized steam chuffs
- bell and whistle sounds
- brake sounds (with Multi-Train
System)
- air pump, safety valve and
steam sounds
- coal shoveling sound (with Multi-
Train System)
- announcement of conductor
(with Multi-Train System)
- volume control
- remote control of sound features
(with Multi-Train System)
- voltage stabilization circuit
- smoke generator
- automatic directional lanterns
- one multi-purpose socket
- length: 355 mm (14.0 in)
- weight: 3700 g (8.2 lb)
THE PROGRAM
With this model, we recommend
the following items:
31065 DR Passenger Car
901-204
38074 DR Passenger Car
901-202
42390 DR Fakultative Combine
8
42610 DR Low-Side Gondolas,
2 pieces
45690 DR
Flatcars,
2 pieces
47350 DR Seafood Transport Car
For information on the complete
LGB program, see the LGB cata-
log.
OPERATION
Preparation
Attention! To prevent staining
during shipping, the external drive
linkages on your new LGB loco-
motive were not lubricated at the
factory. For best operation, lubri-
cate the drive linkages including
sliding surfaces, valve guides and
drive rod ends with a small amo-
unt of LGB Maintenance Oil
(50019). A small supply of LGB
Oil (yellow) is included.
Operating Modes
This model has a four-way power
control switch mounted inside the
cab (Fig. 1, 2):
Position 0: All power off
Position 1: Power to lights and
smoke generator
Position 2: Power to lights, smoke
generator and motor
Position 3: Power to lights, smoke
generator, motor and
sound (factory pre-set)
Multi-Train System
This model has a direct decoder
interface. It can be equipped with
an LGB Multi-Train System Deco-
der (55020). The Decoder Interfa-
ce Cable (55026) is not required.
We strongly recommend decoder
installation by an LGB service
station. For more information,
contact your authorized LGB
retailer or an LGB service station
(see Authorized Service).
If this model is decoder-equipped,
you can control its sounds with
the Multi-Train System. With a
Loco Remote or Universal Remo-
te, press the numbered loco func-
tion buttons. With an MTS Train
Mouse, press the loco function
button the matching number of
times. For example, to trigger the
bell, press button "2" on the Loco
Remote or Universal Remote. If
you are using a Train Mouse,
press the function button twice to
trigger the bell.
1: Whistle
2: Bell
3: Smoke generator on/off
4: Sound on/off
5: Announcement, spoken in the
"Plattdeutsch" dialect: "Leewe
Lüt, stiegt man in. Set you doal
un moak de Döarn to. De Toch
fahrt nu aff." (Dear people, get
on the train. Sit down and close
the doors. The train is going to
leave now.)
6: Brake sound
7: Coal shoveling
8: Air pump, slow
Hint: If this model is equipped
with a decoder, the digital/analog
DIP switches on the loco circuit
board will be set to OFF. The DIP
switches should remain in this
setting, even if the models are
used on an analog layout.
Lighting
This model features directional
lighting. The model has a "flat"
multi-purpose socket, with a
removable cover, on the rear of
the cab. This socket can be used
to provide track power to cars with
lighting or sound electronics.
To remove the cover of the
socket, pull it straight out. If the
cover is tight, gently use a small
straight screwdriver to pry it out.
(Do not pull out the rectangular
outer housing.)
Sound
This model features a digital elec-
tronic sound system. The volume
control is located under the remo-
vable rear steam dome (Fig. 6).
Bell and whistle: The whistle
sounds automatically when the
locomotive is started.
The bell and whistle can also be
triggered by the LGB Sound
Magnet (17050) included with this
model. The 17050 snaps between
the ties of most LGB track sec-
tions.
The magnet in the 17050 is under
the LGB logo. If the contact is
installed with the logo on one side
of the track, it will trigger the
whistle as the model passes. If
the contact is reversed, it will trig-
ger the bell.
Air pump: After the model stops,
the air pump sounds several
times, then you hear the injector
and the safety valve. If a low vol-
tage (approx. 6.5 volts) is maintai-
ned, the standing sounds will con-
tinue to sound at regular intervals
while the loco is stopped.
Hint: If this model is not used for
a long time, its capacitors will
discharge, and the sound system
will operate erratically. To rechar-
ge the capacitors, operate the
model at brisk speed for about 30
seconds. This model does not
require a battery.
Hint: This model is equipped with
a starting delay circuit. This ena-
bles the model to produce stan-
ding sounds while it is stopped.
Attention! Do not connect this
model to other loco models with
different starting characteristics.
This can damage the internal
gearing.
Smoke Generator
This model is equipped with a
smoke generator. A small supply
of LGB Smoke and Cleaning
Fluid is included with this model.
For best operation, fill the genera-
tor halfway with fluid. If the gene-
rator is overfilled, it will not con-
vert the fluid into smoke.
Attention! Only use LGB Smoke
and Cleaning Fluid (50010).
Other fluids may damage your
locomotive.
Attention! Never touch the hea-
ting element in the center of the
smoke generator. It is fragile.
Power Supply
Attention! For safety and reliabi-
lity, operate this model with LGB
power supplies (transformers,
power packs and controls) only.
The use of non-LGB power sup-
plies will void your warranty.
Use this model with LGB power
supplies with an output of at
least 1 amp. For more informati-
on on LGB power supplies for
indoor, outdoor and multi-train
operation, see the LGB catalog.

Hope this helps

Martin

 

[Zerogee]

Got a bit further If you un-clip the wires from the front of the sound board inside the boiler you can then gently lift the decoder off the mounting pins and lift it out of the boiler The Loco it is fitted with a LGB 55021 , the label on the decoder says 014200 below that 8.837160.2 and the last number 11566. and you can with care fit the decoder back again

Lights crap in my office useless LED bulbs so it will be tomorrow in the daylight when I see if reading it on the SPOG as a 55021 helps or not.

Well, the 55021 is good news - much better than the 55020.... but it does point to Dave's research being right, the loco was supplied with factory sound but only DCC-ready, the decoder being added by someone else (dealer or purchaser) after manufacture. The instructions (particularly the bits highlighted red) definitely indicate a serial sound board.

Jon.

 

[idlemarvel]

Hi LGB_Sid,

Please find below a copy of the operating instructions for the loco. I note that the internal switch should be at Position 3 and also that if the loco has not been used for a while the sound can be erratic.



THE MODEL
This detailed replica features:
- weather-resistant construction
- opening cab doors
- four-way power control switch
- protected gearbox with seven-
pole Bühler motor
- eight powered wheels
- one traction tire
- eight power pickups
- digital electronic sound:
- synchronized steam chuffs
- bell and whistle sounds
- brake sounds (with Multi-Train
System)
- air pump, safety valve and
steam sounds
- coal shoveling sound (with Multi-
Train System)
- announcement of conductor
(with Multi-Train System)
- volume control
- remote control of sound features
(with Multi-Train System)
- voltage stabilization circuit
- smoke generator
- automatic directional lanterns
- one multi-purpose socket
- length: 355 mm (14.0 in)
- weight: 3700 g (8.2 lb)
THE PROGRAM
With this model, we recommend
the following items:
31065 DR Passenger Car
901-204
38074 DR Passenger Car
901-202
42390 DR Fakultative Combine
8
42610 DR Low-Side Gondolas,
2 pieces
45690 DR
Flatcars,
2 pieces
47350 DR Seafood Transport Car
For information on the complete
LGB program, see the LGB cata-
log.
OPERATION
Preparation
Attention! To prevent staining
during shipping, the external drive
linkages on your new LGB loco-
motive were not lubricated at the
factory. For best operation, lubri-
cate the drive linkages including
sliding surfaces, valve guides and
drive rod ends with a small amo-
unt of LGB Maintenance Oil
(50019). A small supply of LGB
Oil (yellow) is included.
Operating Modes
This model has a four-way power
control switch mounted inside the
cab (Fig. 1, 2):
Position 0: All power off
Position 1: Power to lights and
smoke generator
Position 2: Power to lights, smoke
generator and motor
Position 3: Power to lights, smoke
generator, motor and
sound (factory pre-set)
Multi-Train System
This model has a direct decoder
interface. It can be equipped with
an LGB Multi-Train System Deco-
der (55020). The Decoder Interfa-
ce Cable (55026) is not required.
We strongly recommend decoder
installation by an LGB service
station. For more information,
contact your authorized LGB
retailer or an LGB service station
(see Authorized Service).
If this model is decoder-equipped,
you can control its sounds with
the Multi-Train System. With a
Loco Remote or Universal Remo-
te, press the numbered loco func-
tion buttons. With an MTS Train
Mouse, press the loco function
button the matching number of
times. For example, to trigger the
bell, press button "2" on the Loco
Remote or Universal Remote. If
you are using a Train Mouse,
press the function button twice to
trigger the bell.
1: Whistle
2: Bell
3: Smoke generator on/off
4: Sound on/off
5: Announcement, spoken in the
"Plattdeutsch" dialect: "Leewe
Lüt, stiegt man in. Set you doal
un moak de Döarn to. De Toch
fahrt nu aff." (Dear people, get
on the train. Sit down and close
the doors. The train is going to
leave now.)
6: Brake sound
7: Coal shoveling
8: Air pump, slow
Hint: If this model is equipped
with a decoder, the digital/analog
DIP switches on the loco circuit
board will be set to OFF. The DIP
switches should remain in this
setting, even if the models are
used on an analog layout.
Lighting
This model features directional
lighting. The model has a "flat"
multi-purpose socket, with a
removable cover, on the rear of
the cab. This socket can be used
to provide track power to cars with
lighting or sound electronics.
To remove the cover of the
socket, pull it straight out. If the
cover is tight, gently use a small
straight screwdriver to pry it out.
(Do not pull out the rectangular
outer housing.)
Sound
This model features a digital elec-
tronic sound system. The volume
control is located under the remo-
vable rear steam dome (Fig. 6).
Bell and whistle: The whistle
sounds automatically when the
locomotive is started.
The bell and whistle can also be
triggered by the LGB Sound
Magnet (17050) included with this
model. The 17050 snaps between
the ties of most LGB track sec-
tions.
The magnet in the 17050 is under
the LGB logo. If the contact is
installed with the logo on one side
of the track, it will trigger the
whistle as the model passes. If
the contact is reversed, it will trig-
ger the bell.
Air pump: After the model stops,
the air pump sounds several
times, then you hear the injector
and the safety valve. If a low vol-
tage (approx. 6.5 volts) is maintai-
ned, the standing sounds will con-
tinue to sound at regular intervals
while the loco is stopped.
Hint: If this model is not used for
a long time, its capacitors will
discharge, and the sound system
will operate erratically. To rechar-
ge the capacitors, operate the
model at brisk speed for about 30
seconds. This model does not
require a battery.
Hint: This model is equipped with
a starting delay circuit. This ena-
bles the model to produce stan-
ding sounds while it is stopped.
Attention! Do not connect this
model to other loco models with
different starting characteristics.
This can damage the internal
gearing.
Smoke Generator
This model is equipped with a
smoke generator. A small supply
of LGB Smoke and Cleaning
Fluid is included with this model.
For best operation, fill the genera-
tor halfway with fluid. If the gene-
rator is overfilled, it will not con-
vert the fluid into smoke.
Attention! Only use LGB Smoke
and Cleaning Fluid (50010).
Other fluids may damage your
locomotive.
Attention! Never touch the hea-
ting element in the center of the
smoke generator. It is fragile.
Power Supply
Attention! For safety and reliabi-
lity, operate this model with LGB
power supplies (transformers,
power packs and controls) only.
The use of non-LGB power sup-
plies will void your warranty.
Use this model with LGB power
supplies with an output of at
least 1 amp. For more informati-
on on LGB power supplies for
indoor, outdoor and multi-train
operation, see the LGB catalog.

Hope this helps

Martin

Good find Martin, the copy of the instructions for 28002 I located did not have any of the information in red about sound functions. You must have found a later copy.