LGB 28002

[stockers]

That would complicate it a bit Neil. I have never had to deal with an old onboard sound. I usually upgrade using an XLS chip. Obviously easier and the sound is much better.

 

[idlemarvel]

I'm sure you're right stockers except for the financials! An XLS ain't cheap. Or even an LS (this is single motor loco I think) if you can get one.
In this particular case it would seem a pity for the OP to throw away what I assume is a perfectly good and working sound card and motor decoder.

 

[LGB-Sid]

I think you may be understandably confused by the terminology in this area.

The wiring in your loco (not having seen it but I believe this to be the case) enables you to have working lights at the front and rear, and something called "function output 1" or "function 1" or "F1 terminal" even (confusingly) F1. This is not the same as function key 1 on your controller. This function output 1 is usually manifested as a pair of pins or socket on the circuit board, into which you can plug some device. Usually it is used for a smoke generator.

These (F1, front light, rear light) are all independently switchable. With early MTS and the 55021 decoder you can use the "light" button or any of the keys 1-8. The confusing bit is that these keys are sometimes called F1, F2, F3 etc.

The keys that control function output F1, front light and rear light are configured in CVs 51, 52, and 53. You can choose to have the "light" key control any of these. So if you wanted you could have the "light" key controlling function output 1, function key 1 turning the front lights on and function key 2 turning the rear lights on. Not sure why you would do that but you could. The important thing to understand is that the relationship between the key you press and the thing that controls is defined by you in CVs.

The usual way to set this up is so that the "light" key turns the lights on. So CV52 and CV53 would be set to 0. But there are additional settings for the front and rear lights, so that you can have the front ones on when you press the "light" key but only when going forwards (by setting CV52 to 128 instead of 0) and the rear ones on only when going backwards (by setting CV53 to 64 instead of 0).

The setting for what key controls function output 1 (as I said usually smoke generator) is up to you. If there is nothing connected to the socket or pins then it doesn't matter, you could leave it as 1 (CV51 = 1). If there is a smoke generator connected then whatever key you choose will turn that on and off.

Earlier someone suggested you increased the voltage for the function output F1 (CV49) and lights (front and rear set by CV50) to max (32 = track voltage). I would put those back to 5 or 6 and use a voltmeter to measure what voltage is generated for the lights and function output F1 and then adjust accordingly. If you have a 5v smoke generator attached to function output F1 and you put full voltage through it with no smoke fluid in it will glow red hot then fail.

Sorry this is so long, I wish I had more time to make it shorter and more concise, but I hope it helps.

Thanks for the Reply , probally getting a bit confused with conflicting suggestions. in old school mode (flip the dip switches ) the lights are getting 6v. and work

In DCC I changed the CV,s as suggested see below




Still no lights when pressing the Light button and no reading on the terminals that feed them on a meter I don't actually think pressing the button is trying to turn them on or off.
I know the handset in parallel turns lights on / off on my Stainz so the button works
I don't know if the button works in serial mode as this is the only Loco in serial I have, so I can only assume if it works in parallel it works in serial

I know they did work on the button before I changed the address and lost control of everything and had to do a reset. All seems odd and annoying ,

I appreciate the comments about re-wiring but this should work without scraping things with the wiring it has, so not in a hurry to pull it apart and make a mess of it and then theirs the added cost

 

[idlemarvel]

With those configurations settings it should work. I'm running out of ideas. Can you check the 55021 decoder is correctly and fully plugged in the direct decoder interface? All I can think is there is some loose connection between the light pins on the decoder and the direct decoder interface socket.

 

[LGB-Sid]

With those configurations settings it should work. I'm running out of ideas. Can you check the 55021 decoder is correctly and fully plugged in the direct decoder interface? All I can think is there is some loose connection between the light pins on the decoder and the direct decoder interface socket.

It looks to be fully home thanks for all your suggestions I will probably just have to accept that the lights are not going to work what I will do is when I get a Massoth L decoder for the Stainz I am bashing (if I ever finish it ) is try it in here first to see if that cures the problem, as running in Serial mode is a pain , as I assume the Smoke won't now turn off the Stainz now as the run on Massoth L decoders if this hand set is set to Serial and I only use / have the one hand set at the moment. and usually run two Locos at once.

 

[PhilP]

Are you by any chance coming to G-Rail?

If so, warn me, and bring it with you.. I will be on the Chasewater Railway stand / layout.
PhilP.

 

[LGB-Sid]

Are you by any chance coming to G-Rail?

If so, warn me, and bring it with you.. I will be on the Chasewater Railway stand / layout.
PhilP.

Hi unfortunately not, that is the Weekend my daughter visits for the first time in three years since she went to the land of Ozz , don't think she would be impressed if I wasn't here

 

[LGB-Sid]

Decided to swap the decoder part to a Massoth eMotion L as it was bugging me, now I have all the Lights working as they should on the Light function button, But... control of the sound functions still needs the handset set in Serial mode , if set to parallel I get lights but no sound functions I was hoping they would be in parallel now, unless I have missed changing a CV on the eMotion L

Loco in general now runs and accelerates a lot smother as well, and with lights on now I can tell which way the Loco is about to move off in

 

[PhilP]

The sound-board is serial.. It needs serial commands to function..
All the decoder will do is pass this information on.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Just a quick question since I see a lot of knowledge here.

the 55021 itself is capable of serial and parallel right? I understand that only after a certain revision it will support 28/128 speed steps, and that it was actually made by massoth.

Just wanted to double check my information with the experts, and also is there a link where I can download the manual?

Thanks from the colonies.

Greg

 

[Zerogee]

Decided to swap the decoder part to a Massoth eMotion L as it was bugging me, now I have all the Lights working as they should on the Light function button, But... control of the sound functions still needs the handset set in Serial mode , if set to parallel I get lights but no sound functions I was hoping they would be in parallel now, unless I have missed changing a CV on the eMotion L

Loco in general now runs and accelerates a lot smother as well, and with lights on now I can tell which way the Loco is about to move off in

A wise choice, as I mentioned much earlier in this thread it is the same swap I did with my green 28001 - the new L decoder makes it run a whole lot better. You still won't get over the serial sound problem, as you still have a serial sound board that doesn't understand parallel commands, but it's not really a big deal - just means that there will be a couple of seconds of lag time between pressing a command key and the sound function actually operating, especially for the higfher numbered functions.

Jon.

 

[LGB-Sid]

A wise choice, as I mentioned much earlier in this thread it is the same swap I did with my green 28001 - the new L decoder makes it run a whole lot better. You still won't get over the serial sound problem, as you still have a serial sound board that doesn't understand parallel commands, but it's not really a big deal - just means that there will be a couple of seconds of lag time between pressing a command key and the sound function actually operating, especially for the higfher numbered functions.

Jon.

Thanks it does run a lot better, moves off a lot slower and under control better than on the old decoder annoying why I couldn't get the lights to work on the old decoder but at least they work now. and I now have a decoder to play with in the Playmobil loco I have if I decide to convert it.

Both Stainz smoke generators turn off with F1 so running serial on the hand set I can live with , until I get a Loco with full sound in Parallel then I would probably pick up another hand set to make life easier, as it would be a false economy to change the sound board in this one just to get parallel control

 

[PhilP]

Both Stainz smoke generators turn off with F1 so running serial on the hand set I can live with , until I get a Loco with full sound in Parallel then I would probably pick up another hand set to make life easier, as it would be a false economy to change the sound board in this one just to get parallel control

???
Not sure what you mean by this?
Each loco you put into a Navigator can have its' own settings, so you save this one with serial set..

 

[Zerogee]

???
Not sure what you mean by this?
Each loco you put into a Navigator can have its' own settings, so you save this one with serial set..

I think that Sid (the OP) is still using an MTS system and handset, Phil, I don't think he's got a Navvy (though I could have missed something in the previous pages of this thread, so could be wrong?) - therefore he would have to toggle the handset between P and S mode when switching between locos, rather than being able to set up and store a particular loco config......

Jon.

 

[LGB-Sid]

Yep still running on MTS III so no navigator, I nearly bid on another LGB hand set last week but changed my mind if I am going to buy another hand set then I may as well save up and buy a Navigator, as I can still use it with the MTS III

 

[Zerogee]

Yep still running on MTS III so no navigator, I nearly bid on another LGB hand set last week but changed my mind if I am going to buy another hand set then I may as well save up and buy a Navigator, as I can still use it with the MTS III

Glad to hear you've got MTSIII rather than MTSII, Sid - gives you much more flexibility..... my (very strong) recommendation would be to buy yourself a Navvy as soon as you can afford it - just go for a cable-tethered one at this stage, you can always add a wireless board to it later - and you just won't believe the difference from using the MTS handsets!
As Phil alluded to above, you can store individual configurations for each loco on the Navigator so you don't then have to worry about switching modes on the handset as you switch between locos, the Navvy remembers all the settings you need.

Jon.

 

[stockers]

Glad to hear you've got MTSIII rather than MTSII, Sid - gives you much more flexibility..... my (very strong) recommendation would be to buy yourself a Navvy as soon as you can afford it - just go for a cable-tethered one at this stage, you can always add a wireless board to it later - and you just won't believe the difference from using the MTS handsets!
As Phil alluded to above, you can store individual configurations for each loco on the Navigator so you don't then have to worry about switching modes on the handset as you switch between locos, the Navvy remembers all the settings you need.

Jon.

Totally agree, whilst the LGB 3 is a little dated, matching it with the Navvy boost its functionality immensely. A really good budget solution.

 

[Andrew_au]

Bumping an old thread, but wanted to make a note on this one:

But... control of the sound functions still needs the handset set in Serial mode , if set to parallel I get lights but no sound functions I was hoping they would be in parallel now, unless I have missed changing a CV on the eMotion L

With my 28002 with a Massoth eMotion L, I found that setting the decoder to fast-pulse mode (CV 49, bit 3) didn't work with the 28002. The A1 output does indeed pulse based on the function key pressed, but at about 0.25s per toggle. Experimenting with manually toggling F1 reveals that the sound decoder doesn't read the toggles if they are less than at least 0.5s apart.

Workaround 1: use a serial mode handset and set the decoder to serial mode for A1. The F1 toggles are longer and passed through to A1 correctly.

Workaround 2: get used to manually toggling F1 at the correct speed.

I've not found a decoder with the old LGB "direct decoder" interface that supports slow toggles. I e-mailed Marius from micron-dynamics about the DRIVE-L, which he says can do 0.8s pulses, but I don't know anyone who has tested this and found it to work.

Some Zimo decoders support "F1-pulse chains" (MX-large-scale-decoders_EN.pdf): CV#112, bit 7 (bit 4 is for use with serial mode handsets). Again, I have not tested one and you'd need an adaptor anyway to fit the interface. I don't know the pulse speed.