Modifying a LGB Frank S into a tank (creating a Franco Belge KDL11 look alike!)
- Thread starter jameshilton
- Start date
)Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Well there you go James. More loco's than you can poke a stick at. The KDL11's were made to run on 600mm to 1435mm tracks. They were built in all those configurations and with two and four axle tenders. There is a 1435mm gauge variety one preserved in France. Other have been preserved all over the place as well. The 0-6-0TT's were made to run on 600mm to 760mm tracks and came with a 4 wheeled tender and a tank version. There are drawings of the 0-10-0TT as well for interest. The 2-10-2 drawings were too big to post so can't do them sorry. To my knowledge there are two of the 0-10-0TT's preserved as well. Any other enquiries let me know. I am off to Australia the day after tomorrow for 10 days so will be out of circulation sorry.
Henrik
Well there you go James. More loco's than you can poke a stick at. The KDL11's were made to run on 600mm to 1435mm tracks. They were built in all those configurations and with two and four axle tenders. There is a 1435mm gauge variety one preserved in France. Other have been preserved all over the place as well. The 0-6-0TT's were made to run on 600mm to 760mm tracks and came with a 4 wheeled tender and a tank version. There are drawings of the 0-10-0TT as well for interest. The 2-10-2 drawings were too big to post so can't do them sorry. To my knowledge there are two of the 0-10-0TT's preserved as well. Any other enquiries let me know. I am off to Australia the day after tomorrow for 10 days so will be out of circulation sorry.
Henrik
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Henrik - absolutely superb - wonderful and thank you for sharing. Plenty of inspiration and some great, un seen photos! Cheers!
Henrik - absolutely superb - wonderful and thank you for sharing. Plenty of inspiration and some great, un seen photos! Cheers!
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Chaps - if I was to want to source a Giesl ejector in G-scale, suitable for a KDL11 (like in Henrik's post above) does anyone know if there are a German or Austrian parts manufacturer (or even UK!) that would do something suitable?
Chaps - if I was to want to source a Giesl ejector in G-scale, suitable for a KDL11 (like in Henrik's post above) does anyone know if there are a German or Austrian parts manufacturer (or even UK!) that would do something suitable?
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Does a Giesl taper in cross-section as well as in profile? In other words, is it as thick side-to-side at the base as at the top? If NOT, or even if the real thing does but you could stand your model one not to, then you could make one relatively easily in styrene sheet (Plasticard) and some Evergreen half-round section for the front and back; cut two trapezoid sections for the sides, and glue the half-round sections (which could be hollow tube or solid half-rod) to them to form the curved ends. File and sand to final smooth shape once firmly dry. The top plate could then be formed with a piece of thick sheet filed to shape. The base where it meets the boiler would either have to be laminations of sheet styrene carefully sanded to shape, or possibly sculpted from milliput or greenstuff if you feel up to that. Not the simplest modelling job, but it could be done if you really want one on your loco.
Jon.
jameshilton said:
Does a Giesl taper in cross-section as well as in profile? In other words, is it as thick side-to-side at the base as at the top? If NOT, or even if the real thing does but you could stand your model one not to, then you could make one relatively easily in styrene sheet (Plasticard) and some Evergreen half-round section for the front and back; cut two trapezoid sections for the sides, and glue the half-round sections (which could be hollow tube or solid half-rod) to them to form the curved ends. File and sand to final smooth shape once firmly dry. The top plate could then be formed with a piece of thick sheet filed to shape. The base where it meets the boiler would either have to be laminations of sheet styrene carefully sanded to shape, or possibly sculpted from milliput or greenstuff if you feel up to that. Not the simplest modelling job, but it could be done if you really want one on your loco.
Jon.
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Good idea Jon - not sure how robust that would be but it could be a cheap option. I've been trawling Google.de and Google.at, and have found Giesl parts but not in G (or Spur II) - yet.
I have found this wonderful collection of photos from the 1970s of OBB narrow gauge steam though - some lovely shots of the Steyrtalbahn and the KDL11 699.103 in action.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/sets/72157624942604537/with/5189240635/ < Link To http://www.flickr.com/pho...04537/with/5189240635/
Good idea Jon - not sure how robust that would be but it could be a cheap option. I've been trawling Google.de and Google.at, and have found Giesl parts but not in G (or Spur II) - yet.
I have found this wonderful collection of photos from the 1970s of OBB narrow gauge steam though - some lovely shots of the Steyrtalbahn and the KDL11 699.103 in action.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/sets/72157624942604537/with/5189240635/ < Link To http://www.flickr.com/pho...04537/with/5189240635/
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
James,
Don't cut out the English producers as the Geisel ejector was used in the UK- albeit in a very limited situation but still there. Corris had one - not sure of any other NG lines. I think LNER evaluated some too. In all realism they were only quite popular in Austria to a large degree- primarily because thats where it was conceived. Have never seen one in G scale. My suggestion would be to get a round chimney and file it as previously suggested. That or try Lotus Lok in Austria - they are quite an inovative supplier. What about getting a cheap stainz chum and taking it down to the metal base and casting one in white metal or resin onto the metal stalk. Pretty random but all ideas. It's really coz in NZ we live upside down that we get these random ideas!!
James,
Don't cut out the English producers as the Geisel ejector was used in the UK- albeit in a very limited situation but still there. Corris had one - not sure of any other NG lines. I think LNER evaluated some too. In all realism they were only quite popular in Austria to a large degree- primarily because thats where it was conceived. Have never seen one in G scale. My suggestion would be to get a round chimney and file it as previously suggested. That or try Lotus Lok in Austria - they are quite an inovative supplier. What about getting a cheap stainz chum and taking it down to the metal base and casting one in white metal or resin onto the metal stalk. Pretty random but all ideas. It's really coz in NZ we live upside down that we get these random ideas!!
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
I'm now tempted to build one for one of my U class, just to see how it looks! Does anyone have any kind of pic, drawing or photo (or even just a description) of what the Giesl looks like FROM THE TOP - is it just an open oval funnel, or is it a series of vents, or what?
Referring back to my earlier post, and looking carefully at one of the plans shown above, it appears that the Giesl does actually taper VERY slightly in thickness from bottom to top - but not by enough that you couldn't get away with my suggested construction method and still have it look "right" for most non-rivet-counter viewers....
Jon.
Jon.
I'm now tempted to build one for one of my U class, just to see how it looks! Does anyone have any kind of pic, drawing or photo (or even just a description) of what the Giesl looks like FROM THE TOP - is it just an open oval funnel, or is it a series of vents, or what?
Referring back to my earlier post, and looking carefully at one of the plans shown above, it appears that the Giesl does actually taper VERY slightly in thickness from bottom to top - but not by enough that you couldn't get away with my suggested construction method and still have it look "right" for most non-rivet-counter viewers....
Jon.
Jon.
PaulRhB
This Way Up
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
The UK narrow gauge use was on the ex Corris Kerr Stuart when it was on the Talyllyn as Edward Thomas. They were also used on the Hunslet Austerities in a NCB trial. One of Bullieds Pacifics also trialled one.
If you take the styrene idea and cut a tube with two flat side plates and reinforce it lower down it should stand up to knocks fine.
Here's an internal drawing 7th one down
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/ex_dwg...e base. The ejector or chimney is open space.
The UK narrow gauge use was on the ex Corris Kerr Stuart when it was on the Talyllyn as Edward Thomas. They were also used on the Hunslet Austerities in a NCB trial. One of Bullieds Pacifics also trialled one.
If you take the styrene idea and cut a tube with two flat side plates and reinforce it lower down it should stand up to knocks fine.
Here's an internal drawing 7th one down
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/ex_dwg...e base. The ejector or chimney is open space.
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Well I've managed to get my hands on a good but not mint Frank S - it was a little pricey, but in my budget... I do now have a sound fitted digital tender to sell on though...
I've stripped down the loco and understand how it's assembled - and have started to plan out the necessary modifications. Scope creep now means I'll also be shifting the front lights to the fronts of the new tanks too!
Not 100% on the funnel yet though - I expect I'll try and scratchbuild one and see how it looks before making a final decision
Well I've managed to get my hands on a good but not mint Frank S - it was a little pricey, but in my budget... I do now have a sound fitted digital tender to sell on though...
I've stripped down the loco and understand how it's assembled - and have started to plan out the necessary modifications. Scope creep now means I'll also be shifting the front lights to the fronts of the new tanks too!
Not 100% on the funnel yet though - I expect I'll try and scratchbuild one and see how it looks before making a final decision
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Well I'm away from the model at the moment so have been scribbling in my notebook...
Full resolution version available on my blog: http://ejklr.blogspot.com if you can't read the detail!
Well I'm away from the model at the moment so have been scribbling in my notebook...
Full resolution version available on my blog: http://ejklr.blogspot.com if you can't read the detail!
musket the dog
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Very exciting project Your braver than I am, being able to cut up a Frank S, good luck
Very exciting project
Your braver than I am, being able to cut up a Frank S, good luck
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
The first cut is the deepest... sorry about the pun... yeah I cut the back off the cab roof this evening. I used masking tape to measure and mark a straight line in the right place and then used a razor saw (thanks for the tip Ian S) to make the cut.
I'm pleased with the finish - it looks perfect, nice and straight and clean. I've fitted some thick plasticard in the former door opening too... The rear windows will have 'bars' fitted before I do the rear coal bunker. Then it's onto the side tanks... before finally tacking a few bits on the chassis
I'm in no rush with this project but I do hope every stage is as easy and stress free as tonight has been
The first cut is the deepest... sorry about the pun... yeah I cut the back off the cab roof this evening. I used masking tape to measure and mark a straight line in the right place and then used a razor saw (thanks for the tip Ian S) to make the cut.
I'm pleased with the finish - it looks perfect, nice and straight and clean. I've fitted some thick plasticard in the former door opening too... The rear windows will have 'bars' fitted before I do the rear coal bunker. Then it's onto the side tanks... before finally tacking a few bits on the chassis
I'm in no rush with this project but I do hope every stage is as easy and stress free as tonight has been
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
In brief (it's bed time for me!) I've fitted the bars to the rear cab windows... full description of work on my blog http://ejklr.blogspot.com, but here...36/a9eb7a3706f249fba28a519c880015a3.jpg[/IMG]
In brief (it's bed time for me!) I've fitted the bars to the rear cab windows... full description of work on my blog http://ejklr.blogspot.com, but here...36/a9eb7a3706f249fba28a519c880015a3.jpg[/IMG]
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Well before I made the 'first cut' into virgin plasticard I thought it sensible to mock things up in card first...
What do you think?
I'm pretty pleased - first 'real' (i.e. not mocked up in Photoshop) view of what I'm creating
Well before I made the 'first cut' into virgin plasticard I thought it sensible to mock things up in card first...
What do you think?
I'm pretty pleased - first 'real' (i.e. not mocked up in Photoshop) view of what I'm creating
PaulRhB
This Way Up
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Looks fine from those angles although the tanks are deeper than Sir D on the W&L,
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_vGtSPl3rIgs/TIOhXNmBsaI/AAAAAAAABsA/yBtF7P3Tjw0/DSC_0120.JPG < Link To http://lh5.ggpht.com/_vGt...tF7P3Tjw0/DSC_0120.JPG
but really need to see a 3/4 view of the front and side to see how the 'face' looks too. Can you mock up the front of the rh tank to and take that as well?
Looks fine from those angles although the tanks are deeper than Sir D on the W&L,
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_vGtSPl3rIgs/TIOhXNmBsaI/AAAAAAAABsA/yBtF7P3Tjw0/DSC_0120.JPG < Link To http://lh5.ggpht.com/_vGt...tF7P3Tjw0/DSC_0120.JPG
but really need to see a 3/4 view of the front and side to see how the 'face' looks too. Can you mock up the front of the rh tank to and take that as well?
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
Yes Paul - the OBB conversions were quite different to Sir D!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/5189830130/in/set-72157624942604537 < Link To http://www.flickr.com/pho.../set-72157624942604537
I've not mocked up the second tank (yet) and there are some planned mods to the front of the chassis too as the lights will be moved to the front of the new side tanks I'll see what I can do in the next week - mind I might as well start on the bunker in plastic now though
Yes Paul - the OBB conversions were quite different to Sir D!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42309484@N03/5189830130/in/set-72157624942604537 < Link To http://www.flickr.com/pho.../set-72157624942604537
I've not mocked up the second tank (yet) and there are some planned mods to the front of the chassis too as the lights will be moved to the front of the new side tanks
I'll see what I can do in the next week - mind I might as well start on the bunker in plastic now though
jameshilton
Registered
Re:Creating a Franco Belge KDL11 0-8-0T (or look alike!)
I've made a start and got the basics of one of the tanks made up out of 60thou plasticard this evening. I've carved down a headlight to fit on the front too, and cut off the bit of the buffer beam (only on the one side so far) where the old gold grab iron thing was...
Paul's comments made me look at the prototypes again and I've shifted the tank slightly up so that it leaves a 2mm gap showing the original tank underneath - like on the KDL11s.
This also means at the lowest angles you can still see the daylight under the boiler!
I've made a start and got the basics of one of the tanks made up out of 60thou plasticard this evening. I've carved down a headlight to fit on the front too, and cut off the bit of the buffer beam (only on the one side so far) where the old gold grab iron thing was...
Paul's comments made me look at the prototypes again and I've shifted the tank slightly up so that it leaves a 2mm gap showing the original tank underneath - like on the KDL11s.
This also means at the lowest angles you can still see the daylight under the boiler!