Paycar possibilities?
- Thread starter trammayo
- Start date
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Ever eager to do a bit more, I wracked my brains (not a long job) as to a source of metal. Eureka! I had some 50x50x6 angle. It was near enough so I cut a slice off and cut out two blanks. At 45mm diameter (at the moment) they will give a "near enough" - I hope - pair of wheels equating to roughly just over 3ft dia in 1:22 scale. The wheel treads will be more finesacle than I would have liked but I'll give it a try until something thicker turns up!
Since starting this project I've uncovered two further pictures of the car and MANY conflicting stories as to its' history. I had realised that the cylinders were tilted inwards at the top - which suggests that the valve gear might have been axle driven as nothing really shows on the photos. What is apparent was the liitle loco's ability tyo draw stock - one pic shows a 50ft boxcar!
Since starting this project I've uncovered two further pictures of the car and MANY conflicting stories as to its' history. I had realised that the cylinders were tilted inwards at the top - which suggests that the valve gear might have been axle driven as nothing really shows on the photos. What is apparent was the liitle loco's ability tyo draw stock - one pic shows a 50ft boxcar!
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Managed to turn the wheels without removind too much metal. Ended up with a tread diameter of 40.8mm. Made a couple of nylon bushes for the wheel centres (insulation) and fabricated the crank pins from 3mm I.D brass tube, 3mm pan head screw (with the head ground down) and some 3mm washers. When the con rods are fitted the bolt will be cut flush with the nut.
Not much clearance to mount the motor centrally drive line wise but the mock up proves its just about achievable. The motor and axle need rigidly mounting and the former will sit roughly at 50 degrees as it will project into the boiler from the firebox. The axle will be mounted at the rear of the firebox (looking from the front of the loco).
Apologies (as usual) for poor quality pics - just can't seem to get a grip on close-ups!
Not much clearance to mount the motor centrally drive line wise but the mock up proves its just about achievable. The motor and axle need rigidly mounting and the former will sit roughly at 50 degrees as it will project into the boiler from the firebox. The axle will be mounted at the rear of the firebox (looking from the front of the loco).
Apologies (as usual) for poor quality pics - just can't seem to get a grip on close-ups!
robsmorgan
Registered
Blooming great Mick.... really enjoying the story so far!
p.s. May contract you to make some larger driving wheels and engine block to suit a more prototypical 1880s 4-4-0.... getting a bit jaded with the Bachmann 4-6-0 & 2-4-2 standard stuff. Could be worth a few glasses of the dark stuff (or Smithwicks if you prefer
)
congrats
Rob
p.s. May contract you to make some larger driving wheels and engine block to suit a more prototypical 1880s 4-4-0.... getting a bit jaded with the Bachmann 4-6-0 & 2-4-2 standard stuff. Could be worth a few glasses of the dark stuff (or Smithwicks if you prefer
)congrats
Rob
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Hi Rob thanks for your comments. These are just disc wheels - a very basic turning job (just tickled it really - not enough thickness in the metal to do anything else). Getting material to make anything isn't easy - 50 mile round trip to steel stockholders (FULL retail, full length, no offcuts) - have tried local (9 mile away) engineers but probably wore out my welcome begging 3/8" plate and 2" pipe, etc!
Smithwicks
Black stuff But sadly,:thumbdown: not allowed. Now Danacol or tapwater
Smithwicks
Black stuff But sadly,:thumbdown: not allowed. Now Danacol or tapwaterrobsmorgan
Registered
Could you slip a glass or two of Liffy water past the inspector?
Rob
Rob
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Well managed to mount the motor and axle together - need to solder some wires on as well as make wheel pick-ups - plus need to make the unit easily removable from the "boiler" (which I have also started on).
With regards to the boiler, I've made it shorter than the mock-up as this well allow the wheelbase to look more like the prototype without changing the overall length.
The balloon stack was turned from a piece of beech (from an old table lamp) but I think the stem (which needs shortening) may need to be a a couple of mills fatter.
With regards to the boiler, I've made it shorter than the mock-up as this well allow the wheelbase to look more like the prototype without changing the overall length.
The balloon stack was turned from a piece of beech (from an old table lamp) but I think the stem (which needs shortening) may need to be a a couple of mills fatter.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Well, done a little more on the boiler by fitting the stack, making the steam dome (1.1/4 waste pipe and part of chair leg) and smokebox front (three Bachmann telegraph pole bases suitably mutilated and stuck together) which is a nice push fit.
The motor actually goes partly into the dome. The motor/wheel assembly has been tested at 12 volts and runs well.
The motor actually goes partly into the dome. The motor/wheel assembly has been tested at 12 volts and runs well.
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Got a little bit further this last couple of days - enough to carry out a test run or two!
I coupled up the truck for extra track pick-up (only the driving axle picks up on the loco) and applied power. There was a bit of wheel slip, then the drivers derailed. Put back on and of it went. THere's plenty of room in the boiler for extra weight so that shouldn't be a problem. However, it derailed again - on a very gentle curve - and I put it back on. So, like the West Clare, "off again, on again, gone again ..."and initially I put it down to cross-levels (although I had made some allowance on the front axle).
After two or three circuits with derailments I made further investigations and realised the driving axle was too tight to gauge - it needs easing by 2mm! Not insurmountable but clearances are limited so I'll have a go tomorrow morning. Here's a few pics of progress (one step forward, two ...) so far.
Managed to chip the wood lip on the steam dome
The truck picked up quite well on the dirty track and no weight to it.
This shows (hopefully) how tight the wheels are.
I coupled up the truck for extra track pick-up (only the driving axle picks up on the loco) and applied power. There was a bit of wheel slip, then the drivers derailed. Put back on and of it went. THere's plenty of room in the boiler for extra weight so that shouldn't be a problem. However, it derailed again - on a very gentle curve - and I put it back on. So, like the West Clare, "off again, on again, gone again ..."and initially I put it down to cross-levels (although I had made some allowance on the front axle).
After two or three circuits with derailments I made further investigations and realised the driving axle was too tight to gauge - it needs easing by 2mm! Not insurmountable but clearances are limited so I'll have a go tomorrow morning. Here's a few pics of progress (one step forward, two ...) so far.
Managed to chip the wood lip on the steam dome
The truck picked up quite well on the dirty track and no weight to it.
This shows (hopefully) how tight the wheels are.
robsmorgan
Registered
I've take out the comma at the begining of your last post Mick......( Well, done...... )
Now reads [style="color: #008000;"]Well Done Mick ! .... really great story you're posting here :admire: - are you going to post on mylargescale as well ? because I should look up who sent me the pics you are working from and give him the nod.
Carry on the great work
Rob
p.s. just bought a s/h Annie to turn into a camelback
Now reads [style="color: #008000;"]Well Done Mick ! .... really great story you're posting here :admire: - are you going to post on mylargescale as well ? because I should look up who sent me the pics you are working from and give him the nod.
Carry on the great work
Rob
p.s. just bought a s/h Annie to turn into a camelback
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Rob, you're making me blush! If I had more patience I'd do a better job - its a lot of trial and error and making do.
I spent a 1/2 hour this morning altering the B to B (now 38mm) but then found it was sensitive to "outside gauge" so spent an hour, on and off, re-gauging track before it would do a complete circuit and stay on the rails. I really needed 8mm thick metal for the wheels but on R1's there doesn't seem to be a problem. It will be spring next year before I drag the trailer out of the barn to test it on that layout - but it does go through R1 points without any problems. It really has a long rigid wheelbase and wider treads would have been better.
I am not a member of mylargescale and, indeed, could not access it on satelite broadband. Thank your friend for the picture, it was inspirational! I have trawled the internet and found two further pics and a lengthy discussion as to the Paycar's origins. It was built by Vulcan (SanFransisco) in 1865 for the Napa Valley and a sister was built a couple of years later. All interesting stuff and a great deal of confusion.
What I need to know is what colour to paint it! It looks to have been either yellow or light green but that is pure quesswork looking at monochrome!
Oh, and a PS! - the Camelback sounds a very interesting project from an Annie. I look forward to that - it'll be a big'un!
I spent a 1/2 hour this morning altering the B to B (now 38mm) but then found it was sensitive to "outside gauge" so spent an hour, on and off, re-gauging track before it would do a complete circuit and stay on the rails. I really needed 8mm thick metal for the wheels but on R1's there doesn't seem to be a problem. It will be spring next year before I drag the trailer out of the barn to test it on that layout - but it does go through R1 points without any problems. It really has a long rigid wheelbase and wider treads would have been better.
I am not a member of mylargescale and, indeed, could not access it on satelite broadband. Thank your friend for the picture, it was inspirational! I have trawled the internet and found two further pics and a lengthy discussion as to the Paycar's origins. It was built by Vulcan (SanFransisco) in 1865 for the Napa Valley and a sister was built a couple of years later. All interesting stuff and a great deal of confusion.
What I need to know is what colour to paint it! It looks to have been either yellow or light green but that is pure quesswork looking at monochrome!
Oh, and a PS! - the Camelback sounds a very interesting project from an Annie. I look forward to that - it'll be a big'un!
robsmorgan
Registered
"If I had more patience I'd do a better job - its a lot of trial and error and making do."
Mick, that's what it's all about as far as I am concerned. I'm making a mould to create three doorways to a roundhouse facade for my turntable.... probably could buy something but my pockets are shallower than they used to be :thumbdown: and a lot of the pleasure is being creative isn't it!
Just a thought with the rail jumping.... I filled the parcel section of my 'Goose' with £1 worth (240) old pennies... and that keeps it nice and stable - could you load some lead into the front end of the boiler?
Regards
Rob
Mick, that's what it's all about as far as I am concerned. I'm making a mould to create three doorways to a roundhouse facade for my turntable.... probably could buy something but my pockets are shallower than they used to be :thumbdown: and a lot of the pleasure is being creative isn't it!
Just a thought with the rail jumping.... I filled the parcel section of my 'Goose' with £1 worth (240) old pennies... and that keeps it nice and stable
- could you load some lead into the front end of the boiler?Regards
Rob
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
They'll be quite substantial - are you going to cast them in concrete? That facade, if the walls were extended, reminds me of the Hay Barns in the Yorkshire Dales! And yes, you're right there is a lot of pleasure in making things (particularly if works out OK!) although there can be frustrations along the way.
As regards weight, I did add some (filled up pill container with sand), the front wheels (Bachmann 25mm) are fine and stay on track but its the driving one that jumps if the track isn't perfect. I've loads of lead so there wont be any probs there. I'm hoping that when the car body is built it will lend some stability but it should be (operative word "should") OK on R1's as tested.
If the worst comes to the worst, I'll have to scrounge some steel and make some thicker (wider tread) wheels.
As regards weight, I did add some (filled up pill container with sand), the front wheels (Bachmann 25mm) are fine and stay on track but its the driving one that jumps if the track isn't perfect. I've loads of lead so there wont be any probs there. I'm hoping that when the car body is built it will lend some stability but it should be (operative word "should") OK on R1's as tested.
If the worst comes to the worst, I'll have to scrounge some steel and make some thicker (wider tread) wheels.
robsmorgan
Registered
Sorry to be going off thread here - but just to answer your question Mick, I will be casting them in glassfibre resin and cutting the sides to allow three arches/doors in a row, enough to fit available space on my layout. The prototype (Como) has side buttresses so I will cast three arches removing the (a) left, (b) right and (c) both side buttresses accordingly. Perhaps I will publish a thread on this seperately later.
Best wishes on your Paycar project
Rob
Best wishes on your Paycar project
Rob
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
Hi Doug - the problem is the rigid wheelbase and its length (125mm centres), plus the near 41mm diameter of the drivers. My first test revealed they were too tight to gauge and sorting that revealed hitherto unknown inadequacies in my track bending. I may have to turn some new wheels but, as my trailer is laid with set track, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I had looked at Slaters but wanted disc wheels and that was hard work! Also checked my tread width - a fraction under 4mm!
I had looked at Slaters but wanted disc wheels and that was hard work! Also checked my tread width - a fraction under 4mm!
trammayo
Interested in vintage commercial vehicle, trams, t
A little more progress. Collected the modelling materials from my son's, so started building the car floor and framework. Also tidied up the front ent of the loco and mounted a bracket at the firebox end for the articulation. Need to make the other portion of the bracket and then test on the line before completing the floor area around the loco. Pics so far......
