Replacement Track NW UK

Greg Elmassian said:
playmofire:
as compared to a DC train with a speed knob, and the locos need no maintenance, operation is turning on a switch, and the train runs.
How many restaurant personell know how to re-rail a train up in the air, charge a battery and know when it is done, and debug an RF remote control system? I believe my "sweeping statement" is fully justified. If you can show me that restaurant personell have above average training in battery operated trains, I would eat my hat, and yours and all the hats in Disneyland. Come one.


Greg
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Greg, it is a fact that your statement is sweeping and so I do not need to prove anything to the contrary. Rather, as you put forward the hypothesis, it is up to you to put forward the information to support it and if you wish to pursue that intellectually arid dead end, then so be it, but I shall not follow you down it.

Assuming that the Greg Elmassian my searches on Google bring up is you, from what I read you are a successful, intelligent and knowledgable man. Sadly, though, when it comes to sharing that knowledge with others you do at times lack what I will call intellectual grace, as evidenced by your tendency to pick up on spelling mistakes or mistypes of others,or to come up with “putdowns” towards other members contributing to a thread or members of the “outside” world in general, all of which detract from your other qualities as well as being distractions from the body of the thread itself. After all, when it comes to spelling, we are all prone at times to mistype or misspell. For example, in one of your posts on another forum, you had typed “plagued” as “plauged”, and I do have some doubts about “personell” with a double “ll” at the end in the quotation above.

You seem to forget that when people ask a question they usually have one of two reasons for doing so – there is a gap in their knowledge that they wish to fill or they are want confirmation that they have understood something fully - and to be faced by “putdowns” or comments on spelling do not help them to either result.
 
This is really flawed logic, a sweeping statement implies that any argument contrary needs not proof?

so your sweeping statement about sweeping statements needs no proof?

ha ha ha ha! Whatever you are smoking, please send some.

Clearly the appetite for combat exceeds the appetite to help the OP, so I'm out of this one... have fun and apologize to all the ranks of insulted restaurant workers...

hahahahahahahahahahaha !!!
 
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Two Peoples, separated by a big pond, not so common language..
Lack of emotional content (not seeing if someone is grinning or scowling) also doesn't help..

'Us Brits, and you Yanks', need to have a beer (cold or warm!) and agree to disagree.

Easy Tigers! ;):):nod::nod::nod:

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
Two Peoples, separated by a big pond, not so common language..
Lack of emotional content (not seeing if someone is grinning or scowling) also doesn't help..

'Us Brits, and you Yanks', need to have a beer (cold or warm!) and agree to disagree.

Easy Tigers! ;):):nod::nod::nod:

PhilP
Click to expand...
 
Greg Elmassian said:
This is really flawed logic, a sweeping statement implies that any argument contrary needs not proof?

so your sweeping statement about sweeping statements needs no proof?

ha ha ha ha! Whatever you are smoking, please send some.

Clearly the appetite for combat exceeds the appetite to help the OP, so I'm out of this one... have fun and apologize to all the ranks of insulted restaurant workers...

hahahahahahahahahahaha !!!
Click to expand...
No it's not flawed logic. If a sweeping statement is not supported by evidence (and by definition a sweeping statement is not supported by evidence) it is not possible to adduce a logical argument against it.

Your cheap jibes suggest that you are the combative one.
 
Just to a end to this, I HATE comments that are: we all, or everybody, because very rarely it is totally inclusive.
 
Well I guess you can tell who went on my Ignore list. Most wonderful bit of Moderator info along with all the other bits our great Mods tell us. Oh and yes the ignored is the only candidate that has emerged worthy of ignoring in over a decade on this and the mad forum.
 
dunnyrail said:
Well I guess you can tell who went on my Ignore list. Most wonderful bit of Moderator info along with all the other bits our great Mods tell us. Oh and yes the ignored is the only candidate that has emerged worthy of ignoring in over a decade on this and the mad forum.
Click to expand...
I hope it isn't me!
 
dunnyrail said:
Well I guess you can tell who went on my Ignore list. Most wonderful bit of Moderator info along with all the other bits our great Mods tell us. Oh and yes the ignored is the only candidate that has emerged worthy of ignoring in over a decade on this and the mad forum.
Click to expand...

Paul M said:
I hope it isn't me!
Click to expand...

An interesting thought, but it would be nice to know if you had been ignored, and maybe you could then make amends, though I think some people will never change :)
 
Martin01 said:
Thank you for this answer.

1) Battery nope.
2) Availability is a key issue, Its easier to purchase companies you already deal with.. If that makes sense. I will ask my dealer about stainless.
3) Do you have a link to the US restaurant posts?
4) I clean the frack around every 3 months. Using a electrical contact cleaner, cloth. and shop vac. As you can imagine at that height its lots of fun :confused:.

I'm finding it very hard to estimate the specific radius track pieces as the layout is fixed to a metal frame and can't be changed.

This is back ground information.
The shape is basically a compressed bone shape.
Both radii are close to 2m
The full track length is 28-29m

The estimate for curved track is:
32 x radius 3.
6 x radius 2.
Long straight 4.4m.
Short Straight 2.5m
Three pair of track connectors.
Some form of sound proofing.
Click to expand...
Right, lets get back on track :D
If the OP M Martin01 has not lost the will,,
Looking at one of the first photos of the straight, the track looks like Peco code 250 Flexi-track, the connection that spaces the sleepers is at the base of the sleeper and not the top like LGB or Piko code 332, which may explain why it has worn quicker?
Again, looking at the straight, the railhead looks fine, so I assume that the wear is on the inside of the outer rail, what is termed as "side cut" as the wheel try to run straight and the flange rubs against the railhead.
I would be tempted to replace the curved sections first with LGB or Piko, using peco rail joiners between the different rail sections (250 to 332), again bearing in mind that this is a restaurant with long opening hours, thus work can only be done at short periods and on ladders.
You are going to need a rail bender for those curves to get them right and with regard to rail joiners/gaps unless there has been a problem with distortion, keep it as it is, it obviously works! Again if there is some kind of sound proofing, just reuse what's there.
Hope this helps, if not, book us a table under the name of GSC and we'll all come up for a site meeting, I assume refreshments would be provided ;)
 
Thanks for the replies, relevant or otherwise. I'm trying to glean al the useful information...

I would go for Piko or LGB, both do a flextrack so you shoukd be able to match the curves. A rail bender would be a big help. Massoth do one that curves both rails at the same time saving hassle of removing rail from the sleepers, though the LGB Flex comes in rail and sleeper bundles. Finally I would suggest Track Clamps rather than normal rail joiners for reliability. Massoth do track clamps that are easily fitted with a screwdriver.

There is P&S Hobbies, York and Scarborough, who also do mail order.

And the will be quite a temperature change at different times of the day do track clamps allow for expansion?
Depends on how you fix the track. If the track is left fairly loose, the expansion will cause the whole track to move, but leaving the joints firm

Have you considered reversing the rails? - So you are running on (what was) the outer edge of the rail..
It past viable repair

You will most likely find that the loco(s) minimum, will require new wheels/axles?
Probably worn idlers and worm-wheels, as well..
At the moment their lasting about 6 months running daily before needing refurbishment.

Put in stainless, you won't be replacing track..
P&S advised against it.

May be some of the wagons do not straighten correctly after the bends?
Perhaps the train often pushed instead of pulled over the track?
If so you can improve the aligning of the wheel axis after a bend by applying a simple spring between both axis bogies (?) made from 0,5-1 mm spring steel wire pushed in small 0,5-1 mm drilled holes in the wagon bogies
I will have to look at that..

But, back to the railway in a restaurant - unless the customers get a bit over enthusiastic when throwing the salt over their left shoulders for luck, the stainless track is unlikely to be in an environment that will cause oxidation.
Customers ingenuity always amaze me ;)
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Greg Elmassian Greg Elmassian​

everything you do should be with an eye to:
  • reduce maintenance
  • increase reliability
  • minimize electrical connections
  • reduce physical joints in rails - both running and electrical improve
  • place "wear" where it is easiest to repair (wheels of locos, not worn rails up in the air)

You will want to use "flex track", you bend to match the curve, and fewer rail joiners from the greater length, typically about 5' lengths.

splitjaw in the usa ( www.railclamp.com ) just announced code 332 stainless flextrack, it's not on the site yet, I got the email on the 7th. This is the famous H&R track that has been imported for years, but better pricing.

You can also find Aristo-Craft flex track used.

Sound proofing might be the black, high density neoprene, like in scuba suits, 1/4" should be enough.
NEOPRENE Fabric BLACK EPDM Sponge Foam Material Buskets I will look into it..,..

  1. How many restaurant personnel know how to re-rail a train up in the air, charge a battery and know when it is done, and debug an RF remote control system? I believe my "sweeping statement" is fully justified. If you can show me that restaurant personnel have above average training in battery operated trains, I would eat my hat, and yours and all the hats in Disneyland. Come one.

    Top quality Italian food though:rofl:
Brass is soft, the wheels wear too. The biggest issue is the lack of differential ability on axles, of course.

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We do run our lines quite a bit as does casey jones snr casey jones snr , but still at nothing like the continuous running likely 7 days a week when the restaurant is open. ​

364 days a year. 4 - 8 hrs a day.

I'm going to try turning it around more often.

True, there must be some model railway interest in at least some of the restaurant's staff, otherwise they wouldn't have a model railway! But I do agree cleaning must be a nightmare.
They are mostly real Italians working in Lancashire , and yes a mixture of enthusiasm.

Would not the regular long run times not keep the railhead well polished and clean ? Sound deadening ? Why would you ? Just crank up the sound system and bung on Milly Jackson. Well that's what we used to do when a table got too rowdy.
The sound deadening is for when its quiet!!!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Fezwig Fezwig​

  1. Looking at one of the first photos of the straight, the track looks like Peco code 250 Flexi-track, the connection that spaces the sleepers is at the base of the sleeper and not the top like LGB or Piko code 332, which may explain why it has worn quicker?
  2. Again, looking at the straight, the railhead looks fine, so I assume that the wear is on the inside of the outer rail, what is termed as "side cut" as the wheel try to run straight and the flange rubs against the railhead.
  3. I would be tempted to replace the curved sections first with LGB or Piko, using peco rail joiners between the different rail sections (250 to 332), again bearing in mind that this is a restaurant with long opening hours, thus work can only be done at short periods and on ladders.
  4. You are going to need a rail bender for those curves to get them right and with regard to rail joiners/gaps unless there has been a problem with distortion, keep it as it is, it obviously works! Again if there is some kind of sound proofing, just reuse what's there. NEOPRENE Fabric BLACK EPDM Sponge is looking good
  5. Hope this helps, if not, book us a table under the name of GSC and we'll all come up for a site meeting, I assume refreshments would be provided ;) Message me.

Thank you for all your input people.

It looks like fitting the track will be the easy bit.
Working out the radii and calculating the amount will be the fun part
Do any of you have any idea how to calculate the radius from a chord and an Arc?
 
This person will know: Home - Hannah Fry

But seriously, the formulae for doing what you want to do to me, at least, look pretty daunting, e.g.

math.stackexchange.com

Calculate the radius of a circle given the chord length and height of a segment

I have a (circular) segment of known height and known chord length. Is is possible to determine the radius of the circle? Any help much appreciated.
math.stackexchange.com math.stackexchange.com

but this looks clearer:

 
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Hi

Your observations were correct. The old Track is Peco.

I have now seen it and LGB side by side. The LGB is much a thicker track.

However that brings a new problem.

The diameter of the track bed is 2050mm, LGB R2 is 1560mm and LGB R3 is 2390mm.

1) Is it possible to bend the LGB Track? I seem to be able to operate a Dremel grinder successfully? And am in the process of making my own track bender.

2) If so is it easier to:
a) reduce the R3 diameter via bending?
b) increase the R2 diameter by adding short straight track?
 
Martin01 said:
Hi

Your observations were correct. The old Track is Peco.

I have now seen it and LGB side by side. The LGB is much a thicker track.

However that brings a new problem.

The diameter of the track bed is 2050mm, LGB R2 is 1560mm and LGB R3 is 2390mm.

1) Is it possible to bend the LGB Track? I seem to be able to operate a Dremel grinder successfully? And am in the process of making my own track bender.

2) If so is it easier to:
a) reduce the R3 diameter via bending?
b) increase the R2 diameter by adding short straight track?
Click to expand...
 
Martin01 said:
Hi

Your observations were correct. The old Track is Peco.

I have now seen it and LGB side by side. The LGB is much a thicker track.

However that brings a new problem.

The diameter of the track bed is 2050mm, LGB R2 is 1560mm and LGB R3 is 2390mm.

1) Is it possible to bend the LGB Track? I seem to be able to operate a Dremel grinder successfully? And am in the process of making my own track bender.

2) If so is it easier to:
a) reduce the R3 diameter via bending?
b) increase the R2 diameter by adding short straight track?
Click to expand...
As playmofire says get flex, you could bend the LGB curves but you would need to cut the Webb on 1 side of each piece of track to achieve this.
 
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