What happened at your workbench today?

[Rhinochugger]

Before dissing Chinese products I think we should remember why people buy cheap Chinese products, they're cheap, if you want quality Chinese products they cost a bit more, still nowhere near the british manufactured product price, but a bit more than the cheap items.

It's not quite that simple.

In the 50s or so, yes, Chinese was a word for cheap, but by the 90s, China could make what you wanted, and to the quality / price that was asked for. I have often shown the picture of my museum quality, brass, Accucraft caboose - made in China.

The demand for cheap goods is consumer driven, so with Chinese labour prices being low compared to western wages, it was inevitable that companies would start knocking at the door. What many companies were not good at though, LGB included, was managing outsourced manufacturing.

But if you are really going to say that Chinese goods are rubbish, don't get in your car, don't get on a train, and wash yer smalls by hand

 

[dunnyrail]

It's not quite that simple.

In the 50s or so, yes, Chinese was a word for cheap, but by the 90s, China could make what you wanted, and to the quality / price that was asked for. I have often shown the picture of my museum quality, brass, Accucraft caboose - made in China.

The demand for cheap goods is consumer driven, so with Chinese labour prices being low compared to western wages, it was inevitable that companies would start knocking at the door. What many companies were not good at though, LGB included, was managing outsourced manufacturing.

But if you are really going to say that Chinese goods are rubbish, don't get in your car, don't get on a train, and wash yer smalls by hand

If you want to see why we should start to ditch products from China these vids are an eye opener where the corruption of the country comes to light.

Not just ecars but push bikes as well.

 

[Rhinochugger]

If you want to see why we should start to ditch products from China these vids are an eye opener where the corruption of the country comes to light.

Not just ecars but push bikes as well.

Ah, that's a whole different ball game when it comes to ethics, and obviously is a future concern.

But we got where we are mainly from consumer demand - so consumer demand may be able to cause a change, if we're prepared to pay for it.

 

[JimmyB]

If you want to see why we should start to ditch products from China these vids are an eye opener where the corruption of the country comes to light.

Not just ecars but push bikes as well.

We should where possible dump all imports and be self sufficient, however, this is were reality comes to the fore, we don't seem to have enough people willing to work, for the jobs we have now, so dumping imports is not an option. We also need to be cautious about other countries ethics, and their cultures, ours is not acceptable to all other cultures.

 

[Paul M]

We should where possible dump all imports and be self sufficient, however, this is were reality comes to the fore, we don't seem to have enough people willing to work, for the jobs we have now, so dumping imports is not an option. We also need to be cautious about other countries ethics, and their cultures, ours is not acceptable to all other cultures.

That's true, the freedoms we take for granted are quite rare throughout the rest of the world. What shocked us about the Victorian age, with its slums etc, is still very common in more than a few countries

 

[Rhinochugger]

We should where possible dump all imports and be self sufficient, however, this is were reality comes to the fore, we don't seem to have enough people willing to work, for the jobs we have now, so dumping imports is not an option. We also need to be cautious about other countries ethics, and their cultures, ours is not acceptable to all other cultures.

Not only but also, we don't necessarily have all the raw materials we need. If we started making everything we needed, we wouldn't be able to afford it, so it makes sense to trade.

We are continually learning about the impacts of world trade, and as I see it, there are two key issues:

1. The ethical issues - treatment of workforce (pay is a less clear cut area) but even workers on low pay compared to the west, can be treated with decency and equality of status (thinking of the issues around the world cup stadia construction in Qatar)
2. IT products with nasty little habits - to be truthful I don't think we know even now the full extent of what has been going on, and we're only just latching on to what could go on in the future (but don't buy a smart TV )

In fact, the smart TV issue is rather ironic because, when they were introduced, people were up in arms about GCHQ being able to spy on us through our smart TVs. Now it seems that the Chinese might also have been able to do that

OK, possibly slight exaggerations, but you get my drift - all of this has happened on your workbench today

 

[Paul M]

In fact, the smart TV issue is rather ironic because, when they were introduced, people were up in arms about GCHQ being able to spy on us through our smart TVs. Now it seems that the Chinese might also have been able to do that

Ha that'll reach the blighters, if we can't beat them fairly, we'll bore the little b*gg*rs mindless with the true reality of our daily lives

 

[playmofire]

We should where possible dump all imports and be self sufficient, however, this is were reality comes to the fore, we don't seem to have enough people willing to work, for the jobs we have now, so dumping imports is not an option. We also need to be cautious about other countries ethics, and their cultures, ours is not acceptable to all other cultures.

Even if every member of the population worked from 16 to 75, we wouldn't have enough people to provide all we want, nor the materials to do so. The real problem the UK faces is a lack of investment in industry. The economy mainly depends on service industries, especially finance and tourism and hospitality, but the last two are low paid industries. Nor do governments realise the quantity of money needed to invest in infrastructure and industry. Johnson's favourite sum for investment £500m. It's a sum he quoted as the UK's contribution to "saving the world's oceans" as well as lots of other plans. Meanwhile, just building a pipeline to transfer water between the North East and the Midlands is costing £400m, so £500m isn't going to do a lot ocean saving or of investment in other areas. Even where government money is quoted in billions, you then often find it's a sum spread over a number of years.

 

[Madman]

Not only but also, we don't necessarily have all the raw materials we need. If we started making everything we needed, we wouldn't be able to afford it, so it makes sense to trade.

We are continually learning about the impacts of world trade, and as I see it, there are two key issues:

1. The ethical issues - treatment of workforce (pay is a less clear cut area) but even workers on low pay compared to the west, can be treated with decency and equality of status (thinking of the issues around the world cup stadia construction in Qatar)
2. IT products with nasty little habits - to be truthful I don't think we know even now the full extent of what has been going on, and we're only just latching on to what could go on in the future (but don't buy a smart TV )

In fact, the smart TV issue is rather ironic because, when they were introduced, people were up in arms about GCHQ being able to spy on us through our smart TVs. Now it seems that the Chinese might also have been able to do that

OK, possibly slight exaggerations, but you get my drift - all of this has happened on your workbench today

If we paid our workers a decent wage, we might be able to afford the goods that we make. So if we were able to bring all manufacturing back home the corporate world would need to adjust the wages of factory workers so that those factory workers could buy the very goods they are making. It's almost a catch 22.

 

[dunnyrail]

Ha that'll reach the blighters, if we can't beat them fairly, we'll bore the little b*gg*rs mindless with the true reality of our daily lives

Then sell the views on as Gogglebox how scary is that?

 

[DafyddElvy]

If we paid our workers a decent wage, we might be able to afford the goods that we make. So if we were able to bring all manufacturing back home the corporate world would need to adjust the wages of factory workers so that those factory workers could buy the very goods they are making. It's almost a catch 22.

By increasing wages for folk so they could afford things, the price of the objects folk want to buy would go up.

On the subject of wages and cost of living, I recently visited family in Australia where if compared to britain quite a few things were a lot more expensive that at home, I asked the boy how his salary compares with the same job he did in britain, he said taking everything in to consideration, he was far better off financially in Brisbane than he was here doing exactly the same job with the same company.

I also recall a technical visit to the north of China where the Chinese Railway folk hosted a dinner, the amount of food on the table was ridiculous, when some of the dishes came out we told them to put the dishes on the workers tables, it transpired that someone had said our hosts should spend a given amount per person on the meal, not taking in to consideration the cost of living in the area we were visiting.
Wages are generally directly related to local economy cost of living and taxes, just because someone has a low salary for the place/country they live in, does not mean they receive a low salary, its all relative.

My salary in britain today is lower than my salary was in Hong Kong as a local employee 18 years ago, in Scotland my children have gone through the various stages of the education system, including all 3 going to university/college and it hasn't cost me anything, apart from the normal cost of having weans. In britain the NHS is structured to provide care for everyone, including those that have never contributed to anything through tax/NI etc., growing up and going to school my father had the bill for my education and any medical care, when my children were born I had the same responsibility before moving to britain, so its all relative.


Stepping down off my soap box to build something that came through the post this morning.

 

[Rhinochugger]

In britain the NHS is structured to provide care for everyone, including those that have never contributed to anything through tax/NI etc.,

Except in certain cases. May daughter has a friend from Africa who entered this country through legal means and works including paying tax and NI - but the NHS will not pay for her healthcare.

As with many aspects of our welfare state, you get stung if you try and go the correct, legal route.

When I was out of work in the 90s, I did a bit of temporary work with a firend which, with all due conscience I declared in the sure knowledge that it would not benefit me a bean, because it would be taken off my dole payments (it's just that I was actually helping the friend with a two-,man job, and didn't like to say that it would earn me zilch).

However. not only did they deduct the entire amount of my temporary earnings from my dole payments, it threw the system so badly that my regular payment was delayed by two weeks. Double Whammy.

The reforms that came alongside Universal Credit have helped to resolve this, and people on benefits can work part time for some financial gain to them - it was eventually understood that this could be a legitimate path back into work.

 

[JimmyB]

Even if every member of the population worked from 16 to 75, we wouldn't have enough people to provide all we want, nor the materials to do so.

But surely with all the automation, we should have a surplus of people, I remember when robots were going to do people out of jobs, plus we imported less then, - to ponder

 

[playmofire]

But surely with all the automation, we should have a surplus of people, I remember when robots were going to do people out of jobs, plus we imported less then, - to ponder

But the UK has also had an ageing population and so a shrinking work force. This meant a greater demand on health and social care and fewer new entrants into the working population because of a lower birth rate. This situation had been identified by the late 1950s early 19060s and I studied it in varying degrees of depth between 1962-1965. Basically, the effects of an ageing population has been ignored, hence, in part, the current problems with social care and the NHS and it's been assumed that things will work out OK in the end or something will turn up. Nor was there great investment in automation in the 60s and 70s which would have helped offset the effects of the falling working population, if anything, there was disinvestment in the public sector with public utilities and enterprise being privatised ("Tell Sid" and the "share owning democracy"), which simply ended in the public buyingg shares cheaply and then selling them off at a profit later on and the closing of the pits (the replacement "industry" in these areas being call centres and distribution systems, so low pay work. There has been further state disinvestment since in effect with a cap put on the number of doctors that could be trained and on nurses' bursaries (it's cheaper to "import" these) and when EU competition required more competition in such industries as rail and water, the UK went the whole hog interpreting it as that there could be NO state role with the result that much of water, energy and rail are in part at least foreign owned. There is the same ownership pattern in car and truck manufacture and iron and steel. I could go on, but won't.

 

[Flying15]

I know what’s going on/the preceding discussion etc is important but I thought I might change the subject getting back to the work bench.
Today I’ve pretty well finished my Cuban Hershey Railway GE loco. The pantograph arrived and a frame was made to fit it to the cab roof. The loco has been lettered in rough stencil style as per the real thing. Finally it’s been “dust” weathered to give it that look that seemed to prevail on locos and rolling stock in Cuba.
The other project on the bench is just awaiting lettering snd numbering. This is a conversion using a Big Hauler loco and tender chassis to create a 1/29 (ish) Camel Back. Once I’ve lettered it I’ll probably weather it as I can’t find any pictures of a real one that’s clean

 

[JimmyB]

I know what’s going on/the preceding discussion etc is important but I thought I might change the subject getting back to the work bench.
Today I’ve pretty well finished my Cuban Hershey Railway GE loco. The pantograph arrived and a frame was made to fit it to the cab roof. The loco has been lettered in rough stencil style as per the real thing. Finally it’s been “dust” weathered to give it that look that seemed to prevail on locos and rolling stock in Cuba.
The other project on the bench is just awaiting lettering snd numbering. This is a conversion using a Big Hauler loco and tender chassis to create a 1/29 (ish) Camel Back. Once I’ve lettered it I’ll probably weather it as I can’t find any pictures of a real one that’s cleanView attachment 314673
View attachment 314674View attachment 314675View attachment 314676

Back on track, well done

 

[Henri]

What a lovely workhorse!!

 

[Rhinochugger]

But surely with all the automation, we should have a surplus of people, I remember when robots were going to do people out of jobs, plus we imported less then, - to ponder

But who will programme the robots ?

Ah, I forgot, with AI, the robots will programme the robots

While we sit around listening to the Doobie Brothers

 

[PhilP]

But who will programme the robots ?

Ah, I forgot, with AI, the robots will programme the robots

While we sit around listening to the Doobie Brothers

Unless the AI search engine gets it wrong...

Doo-bee-doo-bee-doo
Doo-doo-dee-dah, dah-dah-dah-dah-dah

Frank Sinatra - Strangers in the Night.

PhilP

 

[Madman]

Getting back to the issue of the human race, I think these guys were spot on. After this, we can go back to the workbench thread's main reason for being, if so desired.....